[SPOILERS] So Elizabeth triggered the events of BioShock 1?

[Eleven]

We know that in BAS ep.2, Elizabeth helped Atlas by giving a "code" to him for an activation phrase. Does that mean that Elizabeth made the events of BioShock 1?

[Solarmech]

Yep. Without Elizabeth Ryan wins the Civil War and continiues to turn girls into Little Sisters and enslave peopel ot become Big Daddies. Sooner or later he would have been kidnapping children from the surface to make into Little Sisters since Rapture had run out. sm

[Eleven]

Originally posted by Solarmech:

Yep. Without Elizabeth Ryan wins the Civil War and continiues to turn girls into Little Sisters and enslave peopel ot become Big Daddies. Sooner or later he would have been kidnapping children from the surface to make into Little Sisters since Rapture had run out. sm

Wow, she really does triggered it. Thanks Solarmech!

[Ivlichnov]

Of course there is another version of Rapture where Atlas was never imprisoned in a sunken department store, so in that universe, there would be no need for Elizabeth to intervene.

But as this is an Infinite Multiverse where every possibility is played out, Jack gets both the good and the bad ending to Bioshock 1… And every possible ending in-between those two extremes.

So if Elizabeth enables Jack to bring about the bad ending to Bioshock 1, then she really does "drown the mountains of man in flames."

[Eleven]

Originally posted by Ivlichnov:

Of course there is another version of Rapture where Atlas was never imprisoned in a sunken department store, so in that universe, there would be no need for Elizabeth to intervene.

But as this is an Infinite Multiverse where every possibility is played out, Jack gets both the good and the bad ending to Bioshock 1… And every possible ending in-between those two extremes.

So if Elizabeth enables Jack to bring about the bad ending to Bioshock 1, then she really does "drown the mountains of man in flames."

hmm that makes sense thanks for the response!

[Solarmech]

What Ivlichno is ignoring is that there are Constants along with Variables. Just because something is theoretically possible in no ways means that it will ever occur in any reality. A good example of this is at the Fair where Booker chooses Ball #77. He will *always* chose ball #77 even it is theoretically possible for him to choose another ball. So the idea that every possibility occurs in some reality is not what happens in the BioShock universe. I would also point out that the Good Ending for BioShock seems to be the cannon ending and that even if the Bad Ending was possible Jack does NOT destroy the world as we know it’s intact in BioShock 2. sm

[Eleven]

Originally posted by Solarmech:

What Ivlichno is ignoring is that there are Constants along with Variables. Just because something is theoretically possible in no ways means that it will ever occur in any reality. A good example of this is at the Fair where Booker chooses Ball #77. He will *always* chose ball #77 even it is theoretically possible for him to choose another ball. So the idea that every possibility occurs in some reality is not what happens in the BioShock universe. I would also point out that the Good Ending for BioShock seems to be the cannon ending and that even if the Bad Ending was possible Jack does NOT destroy the world as we know it’s intact in BioShock 2. sm

Ummm you're right tho.

[Ivlichnov]

In an infinite multiverse, all alternate timelines are valid, and canon endings are just a matter of perspective.

In Bioshock 2 there are around 5 different endings, which would all take place in alternate branching universes.

And it is also extremely unlikely that any two play-throughs of Bioshock Infinite will be exactly the same, which means that they take place in alternate branching universes.

There is also a trailer for Infinite, which shows a Columbia building that has crashed into the Alps. This is presumably from a universe where Booker and Elizabeth tried to fly a Columbia building to Paris.

[Solarmech]

Originally posted by Ivlichnov:

In an infinite multiverse, all alternate timelines are valid, and canon endings are just a matter of perspective.

An infinite number of universes does NOT mean all timelines are valid. It means all POSSIBLE timelines are valid. If you hate coffee and love pop you are given the choice of coffee and pop (without outside interference) you will choose pop over coffee. Taking your BioShock 2 example there is no possiblity that Delta would kill Eleanor. So there are realities that do NOT happen because the possibilies to create them do not exist. You are taking the meaning of the term "infinite" wrong in the context of BioShock Infinite.

As for the building found in the Alps that is almost certainly the result of a building being damaged during the Voc Revolt and drifting away from the main city and eventually crashing in the Alps. Don't add complexity for complecities sake. Ther is ZERO evidence that Booker and Elizabeth tired to fly a building at any time. ALSO the trailer takes place in the Bad Future
version of Columbia where Booker got taken to 1983 and Elizabeth grew old. sm

[Ivlichnov]

Are all possible futures played out in an Infinite Multiverse?

As Elizabeth said “I can see all of the doors, and what’s behind all of the doors.”

And as the Lutece’s said “the mind of the subject will struggle to create memories where none exists.”

Elizabeth also said “When I could see all of the doors, it all made sense.”

And in theory, Elizabeth saw all of this.

Spoilers for Bioshock 1, 2, Infinite and Burial at Sea.
BIOSHOCK | aphotic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njjQBWzxphk

[Solarmech]

Originally posted by Ivlichnov:

Are all possible futures played out in an Infinite Multiverse?

No, because there are Constants. The START of the games shows this.

A Lady: "Perhaps you should ask him? I imagine he has a greater interest in getting there than I do."
A Gentleman: "I suppose he does. But there's no point in asking."
A Lady: "Why not?"
A Gentleman: "Because he doesn''t row."
A Lady: "He doesn't ROW?"
A Gentleman: "No. He DOESN'T row."
A Lady: "Ah. I see what you mean."

In theory it's possible for Booker to row, but he never will because it's a constant that he rows. So that possbile future wher Booker rows never happens.

As for Elizabeth's powers a VERY important point has to be remembered. Just because you have the power to look into all possibe futures that does not you you will And even if you try the information overload will probably kill you. Elizabeth is not a god, she is a person with the limitations of a person. It's clear Elizabeth does nto see/know everything because she doesn't know her Booker is still alive. sm

[Ivlichnov]

But also, Elizabeth says in BaS Ep 2, “For all the endless worlds, all the infinite possibilities….”

She also said “Once I could see everything, every possible moment.”

And in an Infinite Multiverse, any definitive statement about an individual event, should be both true and not true, somewhere in the multiverse.

The Bioshock games are also riffing on the previous System Shock games, and more clues can be found there.

Spoiler for System Shock 2.
Check out the SS2 audio log that is titled “Bio-reconstruction.”

But all you would need is a version of BaS Rapture, where Elizabeth’s genetic code was programmed into the prototype vita-chamber. A version of Elizabeth would be reborn, and then it is only a short distance to Tenenbaum’s hideout.

And since Elizabeth went through all the trouble of retrieving her genetic code in the first place, it would be another long-con on Atlas, if a version of Elizabeth was re-born and escaped from Rapture with Jack and Tenenbaum.

And this could be the version Elizabeth who we see in the painting in Paris.

The other point to make is that Elizabeth and Jack are of a very similar age and both have been through similar experiences…

[Solarmech]

Originally posted by Ivlichnov:

But also, Elizabeth says in BaS Ep 2, “For all the endless worlds, all the infinite possibilities….”

She also said “Once I could see everything, every possible moment.”

And in an Infinite Multiverse, any definitive statement about an individual event, should be both true and not true, somewhere in the multiverse.

The Bioshock games are also riffing on the previous System Shock games, and more clues can be found there.

She said she *could* see everything. Elizabeth's powers are like Google. If she wants to knoew something she can find it out . BUT she has to deliberatly search for something. And again infinite does NOT mean every individaul event being possible. The fact there are Constants means that something will NEVER happen. (Booker will never row, Booker can never beat Songbird) Why is this concept so hard to understand? sm

[GooglyMoogly!]

So dumb. I hate when writers Retcon their own story.

[✵Ｄｅｅ-Ｓｏｕｌｙ✵]

Yes,it means exactly what you said OP.
It's not even that good of a tie in,seeing how you know,they retconned the ♥♥♥♥ out of the story and then proceeded to tie that to the rest of the series