So... how is this one "bad" exactly?

[MiskatonicFox]

Seems most BioShock fans hate this game, like REALLY hate it. My question is "Why"? Just because Irrational didn't make it? Because the story is admittedly not as good? I can understand why some people criticize it for feeling... unnecessary, and I'll agree; I think BioShock wrapped up its story fairly nicely and even some of the holes that Infinite opened up were then wrapped up as well with a neat little bow in Burial at Sea. But I don't get why this is a bad game per se, the core BioShock gameplay is good and honestly I think combat is vastly improved, although I suppose it does rob some of the creepiness that permeated the first game though really I don't think this one was trying for a horror atmosphere as much. I also don't think the story is that bad, no it isn't as good as the first game or Infinite's story but it's engaging, Lamb is a decent villain and the lore behind Rapture is still strong and yaddayaddayadda. I can agree it is not as good as BioShock 1 or Infinite overall, even if I do like that it keeps the open ended levels over the more linear nature of Infinite's level design, but dammit it ain't a bad game. :<

[SirenSong]

This is one is my favorite, I've never played Infinite, but I will soon. I feel the story is more emotional in 2. The first BioShock was mysterious, but once I finished it, it lost the feeling.

[MiskatonicFox]

Originally posted by Goat Cosby:

This is one is my favorite, I've never played Infinite, but I will soon. I feel the story is more emotional in 2. The first BioShock was mysterious, but once I finished it, it lost the feeling.

I actually can kind of agree, when it comes to emotions outside of fear and mystery - the first BioShock really only had the sympathy for the Little Sisters and to some degree, the big daddies which I think #2 expanded upon. I was one of the folks skeptical of the fact they had you playing as a Big Daddy, and I'll admit there are some holes with the whole "Well you're a prototype (But somehow more effecient)" excuse but I think what they managed to do fairly well was let you experience to a degree what it was like to become something now less than human and need the other to survive; I do wish there was more development with Eleanor as a character, but they still did do a good job. One of my favourite moments in BioShock 2 actually in terms of being sad and kind of creepy has to be towards the end when trying to deal with Gilbert Alexander, when you get the audiolog about Mark Meltzer facing Lamb and being forced with the choice to die or to be with his daughter again, but only as a big daddy - and I legitimately kind of had a mind ♥♥♥♥ moment when I killed that rumbler and instead of seeing the typical generic "Rumbler tag" on the cprse it said "Mark Meltzer." D:

You should play Infinite mate, it really is good. It's not my favourite in the series gameplay wise as admittedly I A) Prefer the horror atmosphere due to my allegience with the genre and B) It somewhat bucks the "Emergent world" that, y'know, was one of the big sells of the original but it makes up by having great action, amazing art, music, graphics, and probably my favourite video game story in a long time (Plus I love the characters, even Comstock despite being a bit goofier than past villains. Though I love the Lutece's best :D) that managed to somehow do a damned good job at being an action/adventure/pulp story that had some genuinely intellectual sci-fi hiding behind it and one of the most head spinning finales ever. The Burial At Sea expansion seals the deal too, I was skeptical about it, but it manages to tie the implied links between BioShock 1 and Infinite in a nice little bow while making the stories come full circle, though it does create some continuity issues with BioShock 2 but I get the feeling that it'll just have to be that BioShock 2 isn't "Canon" per se, at least not with the stories written by Ken Levine and his team at Irrational.

[madame foetus]

From what I know some of the people who don't like this game decry that it was more or less rehashing the previous Bioshock. For me I enjoyed it because if Bioshock set the atmosphere and story, Bioshock 2 tried to expand it more and add more dimensions to the character we knew. It also shows how ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up you have to be to survive Rapture.

Frankly, I enjoyed both games but I loved Bioshock 2's story even more, if only because it was honest enough to recognise that Rapture had more to tell, even if Ryan and Fontaine were dead. Also, it avoided the unfortunate anti-climactic last few levels issue of the first Bioshock in that it kept the story going until the end. My only beef is that I wished Tenenbaum wasn't delegated to nothing more than just a cameo. I'd really like to know more about her and while I don't dislike Sinclair, I wished Tenenbaum was the one who was with you throughout your journeys.

I also agree with Plague Doctor about Eleanor being underdeveloped - aside from a few 'Daddy I love you, please don't die and come and save me', I wished I knew more about her. Why she thought Delta was the only good thing she had (girl was brainwashed, surely she realised Delta's feelings for her and vice-versa was not truly real)? Why did she take so long to revive Delta? And why didn't she use the Little Sister to help her escape sooner; I mean clearly she had the skills of a Big Sister, so why does she even *need* Delta to escape? Although to think of it, it's probable that Eleanor didn't want to give up on Delta and it took years for the Little Sister to find his remnants and maybe the other Big Sisters could give her a challenge so she didn't escape until Delta took care of all of them. (I think I answered my own questions :p)

Bioshock 2 is not a bad game - it's just for a game that's as ground-breaking as Bioshock any sequel it has would suffer in comparison.

[FrozenFOXX]

Dunno, this one's my favorite. I really enjoyed BioShock, it was a great world to set up and a great successor to System Shock 2. At first I thought this would just be a quick cash-in but as I played it I realized its story was about much more than the world, it was a story about being a father and what that means. The story of fatherhood is more complex and subtle than, "this creature has my blood and therefore I must robotically provide for it," it's something chosen, it's about sacrifice, and in the end it's about being remembered for one's deeds when this other person was unable to fend for him/herself.

I think it's a beautiful and touching story, even if the rest of the gaming public doesn't want to give it a chance for some reason. Personally I don't recommend Infinite, it took away your choices, its world isn't internally consistent (why are you the ONLY person who uses tonics/plasmids? Not even ONE guard, REALLY?), and I think its ending is very self-indugent in a BAD way, but I know I'm in the extreme minority.

[Eat3n]

For me, i find the B2 story far more relatable then B1. The twist in Bioshock did little for me. So what i'm playing a genetically engineered guy who is being manipulated, i can't control that, it doesn't mean anything to me. The story in 2 is far more relatable: Revenge; something was taken from me and people tried to kill me. Now that is far easier to relate to.

I also like Lamb as a villain because not only is she the essential opposite of Ryan (which is far better than a Ryan clone) but they both (as well as Comstock in Infinite) ultimately fell for the same reason: hypocrisy in their beliefs.

One issue i've heard repeatedly about why B2 isn't as good is that you get to play as a Big Daddy but unlike the verocious sometimes difficult to kill Daddies in B1, in B2 you take damage super easy. I admit, that does kind of suck, and if you never use your drill what is there that sets you apart as a Daddy instead of just being like Jack? Nothing really.

Originally posted by empress on fire:

Bioshock 2 is not a bad game - it's just for a game that's as ground-breaking as Bioshock any sequel it has would suffer in comparison.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up!

Since Infinite was brought up. I thought it was a pretty good game but i had some serious issues with it. The game should have ended at the drowning scene. The next scene where they are at the lighthouse makes zero sense and the way it's "explained" is "infinite universes, infinite possibilities" and that's just a cop-out answer to cover up holes and such. Burial at Sea was...i felt that the both episodes were a weak attempt to not only explain why the Infinite ending makes sense (it doesn't) but also to connect Infinite and B1. I thought it was poorly done, far too many plot holes and inconsistoncies and it just felt too forced. Personally, my theory is that Levine knew he was ending Irrational during the making of Infinite and that's why we got the weak and forced story. If he had come to the conclusion to end Irrational after everything i think we would have gotten a much better story.

[Eat3n]

Originally posted by FOXX:

Personally I don't recommend Infinite, it took away your choices, its world isn't internally consistent (why are you the ONLY person who uses tonics/plasmids? Not even ONE guard, REALLY?), and I think its ending is very self-indugent in a BAD way, but I know I'm in the extreme minority.

I played Infinite first and when i played B1 and B2 and saw that there was a morality thing where you got to choose i thought it was really cool. The last game i played that had anything like that was Dark Forces 2 (that's old). I loved it in B2 because it basically came down to forgive or get vengeance on people who tried to kill you...pretty powerful stuff. It sucked that Infinite didn't have anything even close to that.

I too noticed that no one uses plasmids/vigors in Infinite aside from the specialty people like Firemen or the crow people...that didn't make sense at all. I mean not only were there vending machines throughout the whole game but you can pick vigors up off of people implying that they used them AND towards the beginning at the Fair there are people advertising the vigors!

[RosarioLuigi]

I didn't like the Drill it seemed so slow and clunky. I much preferred my trusty wrench. I also didn't like the way you had to protect the little sisters to get ADAM. Interesting yes but still seemed like a bit of a time-sink to me.

Those are my only gripes.

[RegionalDialect]

Well put simply, BioShock 2 has nothing that either the original or Infinite don't do better. I don't think it's a bad game, but it's the weakest of the series.

[Eat3n]

Originally posted by rosarioluigi:

I didn't like the Drill it seemed so slow and clunky. I much preferred my trusty wrench. I also didn't like the way you had to protect the little sisters to get ADAM. Interesting yes but still seemed like a bit of a time-sink to me.

Those are my only gripes.

I thought protecting the little sisters was different and added more of a challenge then just simply picking them up.

[RegionalDialect]

Originally posted by -Eaten-:

Originally posted by rosarioluigi:

I didn't like the Drill it seemed so slow and clunky. I much preferred my trusty wrench. I also didn't like the way you had to protect the little sisters to get ADAM. Interesting yes but still seemed like a bit of a time-sink to me.

Those are my only gripes.

I thought protecting the little sisters was different and added more of a challenge then just simply picking them up.

Different?
Yes

More of a challenge?
Yes

Better?
No

[Igris]

Originally posted by Mr. McSuave:

Well put simply, BioShock 2 has nothing that either the original or Infinite don't do better. I don't think it's a bad game, but it's the weakest of the series.

Infinite is the weakest in the serie. bad story, bad enemies, bad setting that tried to hide that fact by using the old white vs black story line.

Bioshock 1 had the mystery and interesting characters.
bioshock 2 improved on the concept, by making the controls and combat better, giving characters their own character model (and not just re-using the same splicer body like in bs1)
and the story was more endearing.
1 started out great, but after ryan dies, it quickly turns to ♥♥♥♥ with a very disapointing boss fight at the end.
2 starts out weaker, but the further you go the better it becomes.

infinite doesn't even get close to the level of 1 and 2.
and Eleanor >>>> Elizabeth

[RegionalDialect]

Originally posted by Doctor Killjoy:

Originally posted by Mr. McSuave:

Well put simply, BioShock 2 has nothing that either the original or Infinite don't do better. I don't think it's a bad game, but it's the weakest of the series.

Infinite is the weakest in the serie. bad story, bad enemies, bad setting that tried to hide that fact by using the old white vs black story line.

Bioshock 1 had the mystery and interesting characters.
bioshock 2 improved on the concept, by making the controls and combat better, giving characters their own character model (and not just re-using the same splicer body like in bs1)
and the story was more endearing.
1 started out great, but after ryan dies, it quickly turns to ♥♥♥♥ with a very disapointing boss fight at the end.
2 starts out weaker, but the further you go the better it becomes.

infinite doesn't even get close to the level of 1 and 2.
and Eleanor >>>> Elizabeth

Oh come on, the story in BioShock 2 is miles behind Infinite. There's no mystery, no suspense, nothing to get you engaged. Just a bunch of (mostly) unlikeable characters feebly attempting to be as good or interesting as their counterparts from the original. Sinclair is a perfect example. It's obvious that 2K were just trying to recreate the success of Atlas with that one, but frankly he's not nearly as well done.

And that last comment about Eleanor being greater than Elizabeth. From the way you wrote this post I don't think you're trolling, but that final comment really is a curveball in that department. There's nothing likeable at all about Eleanor. If I hear her say "father" one more time I think I'm going to shoot myself.

[Igris]

Originally posted by Mr. McSuave:

Originally posted by Doctor Killjoy:

And that last comment about Eleanor being greater than Elizabeth. From the way you wrote this post I don't think you're trolling, but that final comment really is a curveball in that department. There's nothing likeable at all about Eleanor. If I hear her say "father" one more time I think I'm going to shoot myself.

HEY BOOKER, HEY BOOKER, BOOKER CATCH! BOOKER CATCH!.
like that didn't become annoying after the first time she opened her mouth.
infinite's main problem is because kevin levine being the hack he is, decided to rewrite the story in the last 6 months of development. basicly gutting the game.
elizabeth was supposed to have powers and a more active role in the game, but then levine changed it to making her an immortal bulletproof dispenser machine.

[gogo]

it's not a bad game at all

[RegionalDialect]

Originally posted by Doctor Killjoy:

HEY BOOKER, HEY BOOKER, BOOKER CATCH! BOOKER CATCH!.
like that didn't become annoying after the first time she opened her mouth.
infinite's main problem is because kevin levine being the hack he is, decided to rewrite the story in the last 6 months of development. basicly gutting the game.
elizabeth was supposed to have powers and a more active role in the game, but then levine changed it to making her an immortal bulletproof dispenser machine.

Elizabeth was supposed to have powers? Um, did you even play the game?