Unhappy Ancestors & Divine Disfavour & Spirit Indifference

[Edgewalker]

Although it says I am known for many shrines it seems to not have any effect.

Divine Disfavour
I know that Otherworld ritual is necessary in each 7 or so years but I was too busy staying alive in my constantly besieged fortress-village.
What are the penalties for ignoring it? Also, if I conduct unsuccessful ritual (which will prolly happen cause I suck at magic-things) will it reset the 7 years disappointment counter nonetheless?

Unhappy Ancestors
I simply have no idea what their beef is about and what am I supposed to do to prevent it.

Spirit Indifference
Am I supposed to catch more spirits? Less spirits?
Catching spirits is usually waste of time:
- we have not found any spirit
- we caught wind spirit but it escaped
- we found a spirit but it was to strong to catch it
- elves threw us out of the forest
- we found some lame spirit that slightly increases success chance in something that you will never do

I do well in trade, war and diplomacy. I am clueless in all magic and divine related spheres.
Help me fellow Hyalorings :-)

[Odeum]

Isn't divine disfavor from doing a certain ritual in the north?

I agree that spirits are largely worthless. Even when you catch one, they rarely do any good.

[david]

An advisor usually tells you why have Divine Disfavor.

[lyreofsheliak]

I get spirit indifference from:
1. Not bargaining with spirits. (Do you raid at all? Then bargaining with Raven for Stealth might be a reasonable idea.)
2. That event where another clan messes with your spirit rocks.
3. Some taxing spirit rites will cause it by tiring your spirits out.

... there's another thing, but it's spoilery.

You can also check what your advisors have to say on the Magic Screen; they'll probably tell you why you have Spirit Indifference.

I think it just makes spirits less likely to listen to you when you try to get them to do something. Might mess with the spirit rite options in events? Not sure.

If you want to get rid of it, there's a "search for spirit rocks" venture that might help.

If you aren't having trouble with spirit options in events and don't use spirits much anyway, you can probably just ignore it.

For Unhappy Ancestors, there's a bunch of things that can cause it--check on your advisors on the Clan and Magic Screens. (Can't remember which one they mention it on.)

There's one choice that seems to make your ancestors permanently mad at you (adopting Dara Happans if they're your ancestral enemies). Other than that, you'll eventually get a chance to make them happier with you.

For Divine Disfavor--if it's because of not doing rituals, you said that you're doing well in trade and war. Do you have a fighter who can successfully go through Elmal Guards the Sunpath, or a trader who can do Ekarna Four Trader? (There are walkthroughs on the wiki, so it's mostly a question of stats.) That would probably help.

[Cerberus]

I have had various spirits that were quite useful. Yes, Raven helps with cattle raids, but there is also the Berry spirits, which increases food production. There were also other ones. I think perhaps you have been unlucky with spirits. Of course the game never tells you whether the effect of a spirit is insignificant or major, so we just have to Believe...

[lyreofsheliak]

Berry (and Heron, which does the same thing but in more seasons) are GREAT.

I am also partial to Hawk and Anvil-- battle success and a goods bonus, respectively.

There are a bunch that I still don't know what they do. Next time I get Mojara's Mask I'm going to try to get as many spirits as I can, go to their bargain pages, and see if my circle knows what those descriptions actually mean. ("Ensures we stay true to our ways" does what? Maybe I can find out...)

Two of the spirits are quantifiable, if that helps -- Healing will heal/cure 10 people per bargain, and Beaver gives you a 12% discount on fortification building.

[Odeum]

I strongly suspect that "ensures we stay true to our roots" just makes people more bullheaded.

[lyreofsheliak]

That was my theory as well! In which case there's presumably an "open to new ways" spirit, but I'm not sure which one it is. Salmon, maybe?

[Odeum]

I think there is, but I forget which one.

[Cerberus]

Does anyone know what the functions of concepts like bullheadedness / openness to change are? I have come across these terms, but they never seemed to interact with the game's systems.

[Odeum]

I suspect bullheadedness rewards you with +mood for following tradition, and open mindedness rewards with +mood for accepting strangers and adopting people into the clan.

[Cerberus]

Ah, interesting. That would seem a rather minor affair, then.

[Cerberus]

As I was playing my first game, I thought perhaps it was something one needed for the main story, to achieve a solution to the major climate problem. But then it turned out I could just ignore it, sadly.

[Odeum]

This is just a guess mind.

[lyreofsheliak]

I know that some actions are tests vs. Bullheadedness or vs. Openness--e.g. some of the ventures tests of leader's skill vs. bullheadedness. And there are questions in Hyalor's ritual that work that way too--presumably they're easier/harder depending on the clan's mood.

[치 The Spearman 치]

The most common cause of unhappy ancestors is being too soft on or trading with ancestral enemies.

Spirit indifference happens when you don't sacrifice to spirits for a very long time. Out of curiosity have you found the spirit menu on the magic screen? I played something like 4 hours before finding it.