value of supplementary damage on IO

[Physical Disconnect]

so im curious. almost any guide ive read online tells that IO should run 3 supplementary damage sigils. yet 90% of IO's damage comes from stargaze 5 which is a long cast so you have a huge damage down time inbetween cooldowns and even if you hit maximum damage cap the supplementary proc only adds 20% of that single hit as extra damage so the value out of a 100% proc chance for that hit seems to be very low actually unlike for chars that attack with X very often like melees.

considering this would it not be much better to just run 1 supplementary damage V for 34% and go for 2 other sigils instead? like improved dodge so that you can dodge cancel stargaze 1 7 times in a row with quick charge in just 1 second for 400k (i believe this is damage cap for stargaze 1 and this is almost as much damage as a 100% supplementary damage proc would give you on a stargaze 5 as this is 427k) or linked together for more SBA charge and damage? or uplift for just more SBA charge? i dont know there are so many better possibilitys in my opinion. maybe someone who plays IO activily can enlight me on this as i might have gotten something wrong :)

[Kyutaru]

No. There's a damage cap. Supplementary Damage is one of the ways to bypass the damage cap. It will always be the best in slot. Other sigil types are afforded the option of being secondary effects on your existing damage sigils. You can, for instance, find a Tyranny/Improved Dodge sigil.

It doesn't matter if Stargaze is slow or fast. It will deal extra damage when it procs, something that very few sigils can accomplish.

[Physical Disconnect]

the question here is if its worth it to consider 3 sigil slots on a char that deals the most damage with a long casttime skill which is only 427k extra damage while there are options that give you the same amount of damage in a faster way (like improved dodge so that you can dodge cancel) regardless of damage cap it makes no sense to me to have extra damage proc chance when you attack really slow which is the case for IO as she deals the most damage with stargaze 5 and skill cooldowns and not with X like other classes.

[Little_Five]

for people dont know fast charge mechanice of io, yes

[Physical Disconnect]

i consider quick cast and quick charge sigil on IO as mandatory knowledge tho.

[Kyutaru]

Again, there's a damage cap.

Take two builds. One uses your method of replacing damage sigils with Uplift or Improved Dodge or whatever. The other uses those same effects as Secondaries of their damage sigils. The latter build outputs more damage and clears content faster. It wins in every regard.

Damage Cap sigils can have Uplift and Improved Dodge as secondary effects. You should already be farming for these. So a build can easily see DMG Cap/Uplift x3 and DMG Cap/Improved Dodge on it. Optimally, you also can have DMG Cap on your personal sigil and on your Critical Rate sigil to maximize coverage and free up sigil slots. You can also roll a perfect stone to replace yet another DMG cap. You can then also have Quick Charge as the secondary to your Tyranny or Stamina, and Potion Hoarder on the other. You can have secondaries on Supplementary Damage sigils as well. What you're really asking is whether it's worth trading the usual slotting of Quick Cooldown for Quick Charge and the rest, and that's up to you. 10% faster cooldowns is definitely beaten out by 20% more raw damage so you aren't scrapping Supplementary dmg for it.

The damage cap renders anything that allows you to go beyond it superior to pretty much anything else. Things that can enhance your damage further, like faster charging, perfect dodge buffs, and shorter skill timers, all would go on your secondary slots.

[Physical Disconnect]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Again, there's a damage cap.

Take two builds. One uses your method of replacing damage sigils with Uplift or Improved Dodge or whatever. The other uses those same effects as Secondaries of their damage sigils. The latter build outputs more damage and clears content faster. It wins in every regard.

you seem not to understand my initial intention. my question was if its worth it to sacrifice 3 sigil slots on a char that deals the most damage with a long cast time skill for an additional 427k damage while you can just run improved dodge to be able to dodge cancel stargaze 1 7 times in a row for 200k damage on every single dodge cancel netting you 1,4mil in like what 5 seconds? depending on how fast you are. and this by still having 2 sigil slots for something else. it just makes no sense to me to sacrifice 2 or 3 sigil slots for a seperate damage multiplier that you cant use properly because you attack with charges and spells that have cooldown but yeah that was my question i hoped to get answers for.

[Kyutaru]

No, I understood your post. You seem to not understand. You don't need to choose between them. You can have both.

[Physical Disconnect]

i dont consider supplementary damage V+ with a good substat as an option tho because getting one is like winning the lottery so you still have to decide and cant have both.

[Einzele]

it doesnt really matter whether a character hits fast or slow. just think of 3 sup v is 20% more dps. whether its worth the 3 slots is up to you

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Need the Malt Star:

i dont consider supplementary damage V+ with a good substat as an option tho because getting one is like winning the lottery so you still have to decide and cant have both.

Neither did I consider it. You're again missing the point. Go back and read my posts again.

[Physical Disconnect]

Originally posted by Einzele:

it doesnt really matter whether a character hits fast or slow. just think of 3 sup v is 20% more dps. whether its worth the 3 slots is up to you

no this is the exact question. i asked especially for IO because of the fact that her attacks are slower meaning you cant get the full value of 20% "more" damage to the same extend as chars that attack with X or have faster animations that dont need to dodge cancel like IO. 20% more damage doesnt mean anything if your attacks are too slow to gain the same value out of it as with other options idk.

[Physical Disconnect]

Originally posted by Kyutaru:

Originally posted by Need the Malt Star:

i dont consider supplementary damage V+ with a good substat as an option tho because getting one is like winning the lottery so you still have to decide and cant have both.

Neither did I consider it. You're again missing the point. Go back and read my posts again.

i think i got the point but you dont seem to understand that 20% extra damage never beats 10% cooldown on IO because you need your skills to gain mystic vortex to be able to cast stargaze 5 so your cooldowns are actually much more important than a damage increase of 20% that you cant use on a fully charged stargaze 5 because your skills are in cooldown and you have to charge X casts to gain vortex.

[Kyutaru]

Originally posted by Need the Malt Star:

Originally posted by Einzele:

it doesnt really matter whether a character hits fast or slow. just think of 3 sup v is 20% more dps. whether its worth the 3 slots is up to you

no this is the exact question. i asked especially for IO because of the fact that her attacks are slower meaning you cant get the full value of 20% "more" damage to the same extend as chars that attack with X or have faster animations that dont need to dodge cancel like IO. 20% more damage doesnt mean anything if your attacks are too slow to gain the same value out of it as with other options idk.

No, that's not how percentages work.

If a character hits for 100,000 and another hits 10 times for 10,000, one will get 20% more for 120,000 while the other will get 2000 more on each hit for 120,000 total. There is no difference in the damage output if all values are similar (some characters do more damage innately). The real difference is that the second character has to hit all 10 hits to equal the damage Io can achieve with only one hit, so if he has to dodge and cancel his attack combo, he's losing damage. The same applies to Io but you can chunk boss health with well timed burst damage and there are ways to speed up her charging time besides sigils.

20% is 20%. It's always going to be 20% more regardless of how your character attacks. Sacrificing damage sigils for utility sigils when you can already get utility sigils as secondaries on damage sigils is insane.

[Einzele]

ok i kinda get it. if putting 3 sup sigils is detrimental to how you efficiently deal damage as IO then its most likely now worth using.

[ChaosFred]

3 slots of supplementary damage V sigils? Nope doesn't worth. My recommendation actually to only just go for 1x or 2x V sigil and fill the rest with IV+ supplementary damage instead. The subtraits from IV+ are just too hard to miss considering Supplementary Damage itself has diminishing return for higher level. For example, have an Uplift or Quick Cooldown subtrait on IV+ could give you more value.

Unless you are really lucky to get V+ supplementary damage or ....