Damage skills largely useless?

[Suzaku]

So I'm messing with my build, trying to make myself the strongest possible, but this damage cap is ruining everything. I'm at 57/65 damage cap, placing me at 205%/250% increase.

I want to push myself even stronger, but the game literally won't let me (besides the last couple damage cap levels). More attack power? Damage cap. Combo booster? Damage cap. Crit damage, stamina, enmity, exploiter, tyranny, life on the line, charge attacks, concentrated fire, etc? Damage cap.

Why have all of these damage-boosting sigils if the damage cap renders them all pointless even after you've raised it so much?

[Jupiter Pulse]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

I like the damage cap system. It's forces goobers who can't do anything other than mash attack to actually have to think

Damage cap won't make someone not mash attack.

It will if they quit the game

[awanderingswordsman]

Damage is just as multiplicative there, they just use smaller numbers. A late game sunbreak build is having you do about twice the damage of a fully defensive build.

If monsters oneshot you and are hard to avoid it just ping pongs the other way and you have everyone running the required defensive skills (like health boost 3 in iceborne). People WILL stack attack if they can get away with it and if they can't it's basically not a choice anyway.

Both games settle for the same kind of solution by giving you slots that can only take defensive/utility skills. This game does it with double sigils only taking one type and damage cap whereas monster hunter does it with unique slot type.

Not to mention, this game does have monsters that will oneshot you and you can manage without defensive sigils there anyway.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

Damage is just as multiplicative there, they just use smaller numbers. A late game sunbreak build is having you do about twice the damage of a fully defensive build.

If monsters oneshot you and are hard to avoid it just ping pongs the other way and you have everyone running the required defensive skills (like health boost 3 in iceborne). People WILL stack attack if they can get away with it and if they can't it's basically not a choice anyway.

Both games settle for the same kind of solution by giving you slots that can only take defensive/utility skills. This game does it with double sigils only taking one type and damage cap whereas monster hunter does it with unique slot type.

Not to mention, this game does have monsters that will oneshot you and you can manage without defensive sigils there anyway.

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Also there is always a choice, just dodge or block and don't get hit, this game doesn't let you choose to die in one hit because tou just take defense automatically because damage cap.

Most characters basically use the same 4 skills because 3 to 4 of them are largely useless because of my aforementioned problems of defense down is useless attack up useless etc.

[Jupiter Pulse]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

Damage is just as multiplicative there, they just use smaller numbers. A late game sunbreak build is having you do about twice the damage of a fully defensive build.

If monsters oneshot you and are hard to avoid it just ping pongs the other way and you have everyone running the required defensive skills (like health boost 3 in iceborne). People WILL stack attack if they can get away with it and if they can't it's basically not a choice anyway.

Both games settle for the same kind of solution by giving you slots that can only take defensive/utility skills. This game does it with double sigils only taking one type and damage cap whereas monster hunter does it with unique slot type.

Not to mention, this game does have monsters that will oneshot you and you can manage without defensive sigils there anyway.

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Also there is always a choice, just dodge or block and don't get hit, this game doesn't let you choose to die in one hit because tou just take defense automatically because damage cap.

Most characters basically use the same 4 skills because 3 to 4 of them are largely useless because of my aforementioned problems of defense down is useless attack up useless etc.

There is plenty of balancing. Plus they give you plenty of build save slots. The only downside is you can't name them for easy viewing. But the game does encourage you to have multiple builds and to use different characters because of element types.

Most people are going to get really salty when their favorite main is going to have a tough time against a boss of the opposing element.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Also there is always a choice, just dodge or block and don't get hit, this game doesn't let you choose to die in one hit because tou just take defense automatically because damage cap.

Most characters basically use the same 4 skills because 3 to 4 of them are largely useless because of my aforementioned problems of defense down is useless attack up useless etc.

There is plenty of balancing. Plus they give you plenty of build save slots. The only downside is you can't name them for easy viewing. But the game does encourage you to have multiple builds and to use different characters because of element types.

Most people are going to get really salty when their favorite main is going to have a tough time against a boss of the opposing element.

Btw, you can name the loadouts, after you make them, I forgot the button, but there was a button that said rename. Also war elemental gives you typing advantage all the time apparently so yeah.

I just checked it is Y when you go to select them.

[awanderingswordsman]

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Also there is always a choice, just dodge or block and don't get hit, this game doesn't let you choose to die in one hit because tou just take defense automatically because damage cap.

Most characters basically use the same 4 skills because 3 to 4 of them are largely useless because of my aforementioned problems of defense down is useless attack up useless etc.

There is plenty of balancing. Plus they give you plenty of build save slots. The only downside is you can't name them for easy viewing. But the game does encourage you to have multiple builds and to use different characters because of element types.

Most people are going to get really salty when their favorite main is going to have a tough time against a boss of the opposing element.

You must not be at end game. There's no penalty for wrong element and correct element is a 20% damage increase however, war elemental sigil makes your attacks always super effective element against everything.

[Suzaku]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Well...
https://youtu.be/PpZdfwWMtjI
Eventually monsters would survive a single strike, but only because their health is high enough, not because the player's damage was capped. And similar results would be met with other weapons. Take your Master Rank weapons into low or high rank hunts and monsters die in seconds.

Monhun lets you get as powerful as you want and actually wield it, but they steadily increase monster health according to their intended difficulty. Relink gives you 20 different ways to get stronger, then tells you that you can't use any of it because you hit the cap as soon as you equip one or two of them. Like why use Break Assassin to triple my damage if my normal damage is already at cap? Why use enmity and live dangerously if my base attack at full health is at cap? Why attack weak points/backstab if my normal attacks are already at cap?

I guess it's fine if the intent is to encourage more defensive/utility build diversity, but I think the requirement of the damage cap skill, and how limiting it is, is what's worst about the whole system. A fair chunk of your build is forced to be this one skill, or else everything else is literally pointless.

[MTK]

It kills diversity in build which I don't like it.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Suzaku:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Monster hunter also has the whole idea of armor having stats and balanced around that. Damage is this game is clearly more problematic than monster hunter snd that's because they decided to not try snd balance anything and just throw q cap on.

Right now if a cap didn't exist monster's would die in seconds, monster hunter has no cap and monsters do not die in seconds. They needed to attempt to balance damage but they chose th worst merged to balance it.

Well...
https://youtu.be/PpZdfwWMtjI
Eventually monsters would survive a single strike, but only because their health is high enough, not because the player's damage was capped. And similar results would be met with other weapons. Take your Master Rank weapons into low or high rank hunts and monsters die in seconds.

Monhun lets you get as powerful as you want and actually wield it, but they steadily increase monster health according to their intended difficulty. Relink gives you 20 different ways to get stronger, then tells you that you can't use any of it because you hit the cap as soon as you equip one or two of them. Like why use Break Assassin to triple my damage if my normal damage is already at cap? Why use enmity and live dangerously if my base attack at full health is at cap? Why attack weak points/backstab if my normal attacks are already at cap?

I guess it's fine if the intent is to encourage more defensive/utility build diversity, but I think the requirement of the damage cap skill, and how limiting it is, is what's worst about the whole system. A fair chunk of your build is forced to be this one skill, or else everything else is literally pointless.

Think I saw that video a long while back, I am pretty sure he was killing low rank monsters but I might be wrong. I mean, of course if you go master rank to low rank it dies in seconds, we do the same here, take your lvl 100 dmg cap into very hard quest and the thing dies in 1 hit basically. That's not what we are arguing, and you seem to agree that damage cap is largely pointless anyways.

I simply was stating that if damage cap didn't exist, in the current state, you could in theory kill monsters even faster than fast, and they still need to remove it, just make monsters tankier or nerf damage across the board.

I also think that the irony of damage cap is you say it might try to promote build variety, but I think it does the opposite and pigeonholes everyone into doing the same thing on every character even not using many utility skills like defense down and stuff.

[Jupiter Pulse]

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

There is plenty of balancing. Plus they give you plenty of build save slots. The only downside is you can't name them for easy viewing. But the game does encourage you to have multiple builds and to use different characters because of element types.

Most people are going to get really salty when their favorite main is going to have a tough time against a boss of the opposing element.

You must not be at end game. There's no penalty for wrong element and correct element is a 20% damage increase however, war elemental sigil makes your attacks always super effective element against everything.

Oh that's good to know then. I only just unlocked Maniac and Proud a few minutes ago. It seemed the game was going to keep the stat weakness thing the entire time.

Appreciate the knowledge drop.

[Kriss Hietala]

in final fantasy X dmg cap=1 gice boost 9999 - 99999 and dmg cap +2 was upping it to 999999dmh. Here dmg cap+65 gives very little.

[卡玛丘诺]

idk depends on skill what do you use and char

[Treskittle]

Damage capping in a game like this is really boring, seeing as you only have 12 slots, or 24 possible effects going on. 4 of those have to be damage cap, should have Potion Hoarder, your unique sigils, improved Dodge, Tyranny, Stamina, and everything else is jjsut... nothingness. You've hit the damage cap even when bursting the cap. It's a great game there's just no mission variety and by extension there's no build variety since it's all a DPS race. There's no reason to build tankier as the game doesn't need it, there's no reason to not jjust stack on as much damage and then also grabbing Guts/Autores to circumvent the forced HP cap of 45K or lower in a game where bosses can sometimes hit for 60K+.

I don't think Damage caps are bad ideas overall, I just think it's a really poor execution on this game's part. Remove the cap sigils, remove the cap, let the players find ways to get higher and higher damage, make the bosses tougher, or maybe throw in some actual variety in the bosses, tweak the systems so you can't just stunlock bosses to kingdom come. Damage cap isn't the problem inherently, it just exacerbates and pigeonholes certain builds and playstyles.

[pip]

The damage cap is stupidly implemented, I had one attack boost sigil and it made Vaseraga's Jammed status useless because you will always be capped for it's buff. So you get an ability that deals 30% health self-damage for nothing in return before hitting level 45.

Even with Damage Cap sigils I still can't find use for that ability, you will never benefit from the 80% atk up.

[Traitor]

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

You must not be at end game. There's no penalty for wrong element and correct element is a 20% damage increase however, war elemental sigil makes your attacks always super effective element against everything.

Oh that's good to know then. I only just unlocked Maniac and Proud a few minutes ago. It seemed the game was going to keep the stat weakness thing the entire time.

Appreciate the knowledge drop. :tamamosquee:

Improved Dodge and Potion Hoarder will be your best friends till you learn the fights. If you get luck to get them on a V+ that you need, max that to 15!