Damage skills largely useless?

[Suzaku]

So I'm messing with my build, trying to make myself the strongest possible, but this damage cap is ruining everything. I'm at 57/65 damage cap, placing me at 205%/250% increase.

I want to push myself even stronger, but the game literally won't let me (besides the last couple damage cap levels). More attack power? Damage cap. Combo booster? Damage cap. Crit damage, stamina, enmity, exploiter, tyranny, life on the line, charge attacks, concentrated fire, etc? Damage cap.

Why have all of these damage-boosting sigils if the damage cap renders them all pointless even after you've raised it so much?

[TyresTyco]

Yeah it is a weird system. 4 dmg cap sigils are mendatory.. you will hit the cap even with lvl 25 catastrophe with 100% crit and one single tyranny (or 2 quick charge sigils for something like eugen QC shot build). Then to up the dmg even more...

1 war elemantal and 3 supplementary and then you only have like 2-3 slots left for character specific skills or defense stuff.

All the builds at the end are the same. The only question there is will use some + sigil with uplift, cascade, improved dodge etc or not.

Since the game explains nothing I'm sure the majority stacks dmg without realizing that you only need dmg cap sigils and one single flat dmg up of your choice.

Attack sigils are useless... health is borderline useless.. stronghold lvl 15 isn't that bad. With it you won't get oneshot most of the time at 41 k hp.

Some skill and finisher dmg caps however go beyond what I wrote above.. but for these I wouldnt stack dmg ups more.

[brunolm]

That is true, I am hitting the damage cap without any explicit Attack+, Combo, or whatever. All I have really is damage cap and crit rate

[awanderingswordsman]

It is really attack and character dependent. Like you can't reach the combo finisher damage caps for narmaya without a lot of attack boosting sigils even with fully awakened terminus weapon. You can reach the cap on blue combo hits without any though, just need to crit.

[Keagian]

Its a weird system that they brought over from the mobile gacha game.

I'd prefer they removed it and instead gave bosses more health and let players stack dps if they want but be a glass cannon or build some damage and have QoL sigils if they want it.

[awanderingswordsman]

The game couldn't function in it's current balancing state without a cap. You'd be turning 2 minute boss fights into 20 second fights. Every fight would be lancelot runs forwards and freezes the enemy, the other people stacking 12 damage sigils and the incredibly powerful active buffs and just kill the enemy before the freeze ends.

I think the cap is a good idea, but I don't think being able to increase it is. Like if you capped attack at 300% of your unbuffed pre sigil attack, and removed every cap increase, I think the game would be better for it.

[SiFi]

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

The game couldn't function in it's current balancing state without a cap. You'd be turning 2 minute boss fights into 20 second fights. Every fight would be lancelot runs forwards and freezes the enemy, the other people stacking 12 damage sigils and the incredibly powerful active buffs and just kill the enemy before the freeze ends.

I think the cap is a good idea, but I don't think being able to increase it is. Like if you capped attack at 300% of your unbuffed pre sigil attack, and removed every cap increase, I think the game would be better for it.

More or less. Damage cap is a good thing, but it still makes me question the though process behind the various sigils. Its just like the Final Fantasy games having damage caps; without a cap in damage you cant make an engaging fight, cant make a challenge.

So the question then comes, whys the damage/hp of bosses scaled the way they are? I dont know the answer to that, but I would love to have a conversation with the minds behind some of these choices, JUST so I can understand what they are trying to do.

[Suzaku]

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

I think the cap is a good idea, but I don't think being able to increase it is. Like if you capped attack at 300% of your unbuffed pre sigil attack, and removed every cap increase, I think the game would be better for it.

This is pretty much my thoughts, too. I understand why there is a cap, but I find its implementation lacking. If you need to spend 4 sigil slots to buff the cap just to reach your true potential, then you don't have 12 sigil slots; you have 8.

My thought is they just make the current 250% cap increase baseline, remove the damage cap skill entirely, and turn the last sigil slot in the mastery trees to some other stat increase (like another 700 attack and 2000 health), or removing that node entirely. Since sigil+ exists, the current 12 sigils we have access to means a max potential of 24 skills, but 4 of those are currently required for damage cap, so you realistically only have room for 20 skills. If the cap were made baseline and the skill removed, then removing 2 sigil slots would leave you with 10 slots, for a max of 20 skills again, keeping the change as balanced as possible while removing this frustrating requirement.

[brunolm]

I'm in favor of damage cap, but I think everyone's base damage should be lower for you to want to use an Attack+ sigil. As it stands I have no reason to use a Damage/combo/crit damage or any damage sigils

[Manslayer]

Damage cap is a trash system, remember devs control the damage numbers already so they could easily reduce things such as attack, crit, supplementary etc, but they threw a cap in there to make it so they didn't have to truly balance anything other than your base damage cap and then just add a % to that. It's exactly why bosses die so fast and take little effort, because you do hit damage cap so easily.

Basically makes high risk things pointless because you don't gain anything.

[Senki]

Yeah not a fan of the the damage cap system

[Jupiter Pulse]

I like the damage cap system. It's forces goobers who can't do anything other than mash attack to actually have to think

[Suzaku]

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

I like the damage cap system. It's forces goobers who can't do anything other than mash attack to actually have to think :nerov:

Nope. This goober still mashes attack and doesn't think. I just do less damage because the game said so.

[awanderingswordsman]

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Damage cap is a trash system, remember devs control the damage numbers already so they could easily reduce things such as attack, crit, supplementary etc, but they threw a cap in there to make it so they didn't have to truly balance anything other than your base damage cap and then just add a % to that. It's exactly why bosses die so fast and take little effort, because you do hit damage cap so easily.

Basically makes high risk things pointless because you don't gain anything.

It's the issue with having so many slots. It'd basically mandate using all offense because it's all so much stronger than not using it. Even WITH the damage caps I just got MVP on a proud quest where I died 4 times. S++ as well without getting all the objectives (was black dragon).

Having a cap is basically allowing defensive skills to have value. Monster hunter often runs into the same problem but their solution is different slot sizes.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by Jupiter Pulse:

I like the damage cap system. It's forces goobers who can't do anything other than mash attack to actually have to think :nerov:

Damage cap won't make someone not mash attack.

[Manslayer]

Originally posted by awanderingswordsman:

Originally posted by Manslayer:

Damage cap is a trash system, remember devs control the damage numbers already so they could easily reduce things such as attack, crit, supplementary etc, but they threw a cap in there to make it so they didn't have to truly balance anything other than your base damage cap and then just add a % to that. It's exactly why bosses die so fast and take little effort, because you do hit damage cap so easily.

Basically makes high risk things pointless because you don't gain anything.

It's the issue with having so many slots. It'd basically mandate using all offense because it's all so much stronger than not using it. Even WITH the damage caps I just got MVP on a proud quest where I died 4 times. S++ as well without getting all the objectives (was black dragon).

Having a cap is basically allowing defensive skills to have value. Monster hunter often runs into the same problem but their solution is different slot sizes.

You can easily increase monster damage and aggression to make it so pure offense is punished with one shots.

Or just reduce all the offense stats in general so you don't do damage so quickly. Monster hunter is a bad comparison because damage isn't exponential in that game.

Damage cap also reduces build variety because defense down is pointless, attack up is pointless, supports to increase offense are pointless, basically everyone does the same damage and tankynes because you can easily get away with it.