Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword

258789553873 Mar 29, 2023 @ 10:23am
THE AI CHEATS
I had 8 cities, the civ had 5. Somehow, they were able to churn out units far faster than me. Now when I try to get my revenge, somehow their stupid elephants SLAUGHTER MY NAVY SEALS. Their strength is half mine, and I outnumber them a dozen to one, but one elephant EXTERIMANTED MY ARMY. Wtf???? This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I couldn't have any more of an advantage, and that damned elephant is so op MY BEST TROOPS DON'T STAND A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL AGAINST IT. Wtf???? It shouldn't even be able to kill several of my units IN A SINGLE TURN. This is busllhit, I'm getting sick of this stupid game. I thought long ago I just needed to get better. Now that I'm older and wiser, I see that the stupid computer CHEATS. A freaking elephant with two promotions can slaughter over 20 navy seals in a single turn? Wtf?

Screw this game, I'm sick of its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rng and the stupid CHEATING AI. I mean, wtf am I supposed to do? Their freaking medieval units can slaughter my modern-day units like they're A COMPLETE JOKE. What more can I do? Seriously? That stupid ♥♥♥♥♥ knocked me from the top spot in score, and now I can't get my revenge no matter what, and she's left me with broken cities that can't use half their tiles. This is disgusting. What kind of a game is this?????? I thought it was supposed to be a strategy game, not one about rng filled with hidden mechanics THAT MAKE NO SENSE. How is a strength 10 unit able to take on a grand total of twenty 24-strength units all in a single turn???? I can't make my units attack more than once per round. And yes, its one elephant. I thought it was a massive stack, but in reality ITS A SINGLE ONE. A single elephant was allowed to attack over and over and win every single fight despite the odds clearly being against it. ♥♥♥♥ this game.
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Virgil Apr 8, 2023 @ 4:22pm 
Head over to civfanatics.com in Civ 4's Strategy and Tips section if you haven't given up yet. There is a lot that goes on under the hood in this game, and based on your several threads in this forum, I can tell you're a less experienced player. This is not the most casual friendly game in the world, and basically represents the last of a dying breed of 4x. No matter how much you think you know, there's always a lot more waiting to be discovered.

In short, you need to learn the fundamental mechanics of this game from the ground up. Forget everything you think you know about Civ 4 and read up on it before you further reinforce any bad habits that you have. The issues you've outlined are far reaching and are indicative of serious mistakes being made at every level of your game. You might get some piecemeal advice here on Steam (if you can trust it), but civfanatics is where you need to go if you're actually serious about improving.
red255 Apr 9, 2023 @ 5:35am 
a fully healed navy seal has no chance of losing against a fully healed elephant.

since 24 > 8 and well the seal has first strikes to make it worse.

but I assume the topic creator did something wrong, and didn't give enough information to figure out what it was.

which I'm not blaming him for. just saying he missed something and I require information that he did not provide.
Originally posted by red255:
but I assume the topic creator did something wrong, and didn't give enough information (for us) to figure out what it was.

That's pretty much the only possibility here, isn't it? I mean, I know this game, you know this game, every experienced player around here knows this game, and we all know it's not like what OP's describing. Seriously, if he were a little less dramatic and a little more rational about it maybe we could start figuring out what the problem is, but as it is I think that's something rather difficult to do.
ghpstage Apr 10, 2023 @ 10:04am 
The closest scenario to what the OP claims would be that the AI simply attacked with an unseen force sat in the fog. A stack of 20 in the modern era is woefully small, it seems plausible that even a warlord level AI could have more than enough units to overwhelm a force that piddly by this late in the game, especially since the AI knows to lead it's attacks with catapults.

The number problem would be further escalated if the OP is playing on marathon speed where unit cost is much reduced and opportunities for unit completion trebled, resulting in much inflated stack sizes for every civ.

I agree with Virgil here, that given this and other recent threads, it is clear that the OP is making a wide range of bad moves right from the start.
Last edited by ghpstage; Apr 10, 2023 @ 11:57am
Sodarin Apr 11, 2023 @ 8:59pm 
Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:
I had 8 cities, the civ had 5. Somehow, they were able to churn out units far faster than me. Now when I try to get my revenge, somehow their stupid elephants SLAUGHTER MY NAVY SEALS. Their strength is half mine, and I outnumber them a dozen to one, but one elephant EXTERIMANTED MY ARMY. Wtf???? This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I couldn't have any more of an advantage, and that damned elephant is so op MY BEST TROOPS DON'T STAND A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL AGAINST IT. Wtf???? It shouldn't even be able to kill several of my units IN A SINGLE TURN. This is busllhit, I'm getting sick of this stupid game. I thought long ago I just needed to get better. Now that I'm older and wiser, I see that the stupid computer CHEATS. A freaking elephant with two promotions can slaughter over 20 navy seals in a single turn? Wtf?

Screw this game, I'm sick of its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rng and the stupid CHEATING AI. I mean, wtf am I supposed to do? Their freaking medieval units can slaughter my modern-day units like they're A COMPLETE JOKE. What more can I do? Seriously? That stupid ♥♥♥♥♥ knocked me from the top spot in score, and now I can't get my revenge no matter what, and she's left me with broken cities that can't use half their tiles. This is disgusting. What kind of a game is this?????? I thought it was supposed to be a strategy game, not one about rng filled with hidden mechanics THAT MAKE NO SENSE. How is a strength 10 unit able to take on a grand total of twenty 24-strength units all in a single turn???? I can't make my units attack more than once per round. And yes, its one elephant. I thought it was a massive stack, but in reality ITS A SINGLE ONE. A single elephant was allowed to attack over and over and win every single fight despite the odds clearly being against it. ♥♥♥♥ this game.

Honestly funniest ♥♥♥♥ I've read in a while
Originally posted by Sodarin:
Originally posted by IXBlackWolfXI:
I had 8 cities, the civ had 5. Somehow, they were able to churn out units far faster than me. Now when I try to get my revenge, somehow their stupid elephants SLAUGHTER MY NAVY SEALS. Their strength is half mine, and I outnumber them a dozen to one, but one elephant EXTERIMANTED MY ARMY. Wtf???? This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I couldn't have any more of an advantage, and that damned elephant is so op MY BEST TROOPS DON'T STAND A SNOWBALL'S CHANCE IN HELL AGAINST IT. Wtf???? It shouldn't even be able to kill several of my units IN A SINGLE TURN. This is busllhit, I'm getting sick of this stupid game. I thought long ago I just needed to get better. Now that I'm older and wiser, I see that the stupid computer CHEATS. A freaking elephant with two promotions can slaughter over 20 navy seals in a single turn? Wtf?

Screw this game, I'm sick of its ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ rng and the stupid CHEATING AI. I mean, wtf am I supposed to do? Their freaking medieval units can slaughter my modern-day units like they're A COMPLETE JOKE. What more can I do? Seriously? That stupid ♥♥♥♥♥ knocked me from the top spot in score, and now I can't get my revenge no matter what, and she's left me with broken cities that can't use half their tiles. This is disgusting. What kind of a game is this?????? I thought it was supposed to be a strategy game, not one about rng filled with hidden mechanics THAT MAKE NO SENSE. How is a strength 10 unit able to take on a grand total of twenty 24-strength units all in a single turn???? I can't make my units attack more than once per round. And yes, its one elephant. I thought it was a massive stack, but in reality ITS A SINGLE ONE. A single elephant was allowed to attack over and over and win every single fight despite the odds clearly being against it. ♥♥♥♥ this game.

Honestly funniest ♥♥♥♥ I've read in a while

You should see OP's other posts then. This is like part 5 in an epic series of chronicles detailing how OP himself unknowingly ruins his day due to his lack of understanding of how this game works.
ulroth Apr 27, 2023 @ 1:28am 
Nahh . . dont head over to civ fanatics to see the one strat that gets past a bad AI. Firaxis has always been awful at AI opponents so they debuff you and buff them.

Civ4 is the worst. Civ 5 and 6 are better but the AI is stupid and easy to beat.

The Civ games are just bad war games.

Just find another game with better programming.
Virgil Apr 27, 2023 @ 2:23am 
Originally posted by ulroth:
Nahh . . dont head over to civ fanatics to see the one strat that gets past a bad AI. Firaxis has always been awful at AI opponents so they debuff you and buff them.

Civ4 is the worst. Civ 5 and 6 are better but the AI is stupid and easy to beat.

The Civ games are just bad war games.

Just find another game with better programming.

The one strat? There are countless, depending on what your aims are. If you're referring to the Cuirassier strat (which is arguably the most popular and effective warmonger strat and is very effective), that is certainly viable but there are many others as well. Elepults, Horse Archers, Praetorians, Riflemen/Cannons, Bombers combo'd with anything, nukes, the list goes on for breakout military strats for any given time period. If you know the fundamental mechanics, you can get pretty creative with how you pursue your chosen victory condition within the parameters of the game. If you understand the diplomacy system as well as how to wage war properly in general, you can also do much better at avoiding unwanted conflicts if you desire to pursue a more peaceful strategy instead... or punish an aggressive enemy who attacked you by making them pay you an arm and a leg to back off on your counterattack if you don't outright conquer them.

As for Civ being a bad wargame, that is definitely subjective. If Civ 4 is a bad war game, I'd challenge you to find me a 4x game that does it better - and no, Civ 5 and 6 are not improvements in warfare. I won't touch Civ 6 (plenty of others have), but in Civ 5 the AI is completely incapable of utilizing 1UPT effectively at all and can be hard stopped with a few ranged units with ease. That is hardly compelling gameplay. Every other system in the game was simplified and streamlined as well, which isn't terrible by itself, but the only things they replaced it with were stuff like the World Congress and Archaeology which were specifically placed in the midgame because by the devs' own acknowledgement, the midgame was a long, tedious and boring slog with nothing happening. Civ 4 is a much faster paced game from beginning to end.

If I'm thinking of a non 4x TBS game that is more war focused and probably does that piece better, it would be Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and especially 3, but they don't include all the other aspects of a 4x game like empire management etc. I've played a lot of 4x games and I have not encountered a single one that was as refined and balanced as this one, even ones that I absolutely adore like Alpha Centauri which is still charming as hell but doesn't even pretend to be balanced.
Originally posted by Virgil:
Originally posted by ulroth:
Nahh . . dont head over to civ fanatics to see the one strat that gets past a bad AI. Firaxis has always been awful at AI opponents so they debuff you and buff them.

Civ4 is the worst. Civ 5 and 6 are better but the AI is stupid and easy to beat.

The Civ games are just bad war games.

Just find another game with better programming.

The one strat? There are countless, depending on what your aims are. If you're referring to the Cuirassier strat (which is arguably the most popular and effective warmonger strat and is very effective), that is certainly viable but there are many others as well. Elepults, Horse Archers, Praetorians, Riflemen/Cannons, Bombers combo'd with anything, nukes, the list goes on for breakout military strats for any given time period. If you know the fundamental mechanics, you can get pretty creative with how you pursue your chosen victory condition within the parameters of the game. If you understand the diplomacy system as well as how to wage war properly in general, you can also do much better at avoiding unwanted conflicts if you desire to pursue a more peaceful strategy instead... or punish an aggressive enemy who attacked you by making them pay you an arm and a leg to back off on your counterattack if you don't outright conquer them.

As for Civ being a bad wargame, that is definitely subjective. If Civ 4 is a bad war game, I'd challenge you to find me a 4x game that does it better - and no, Civ 5 and 6 are not improvements in warfare. I won't touch Civ 6 (plenty of others have), but in Civ 5 the AI is completely incapable of utilizing 1UPT effectively at all and can be hard stopped with a few ranged units with ease. That is hardly compelling gameplay. Every other system in the game was simplified and streamlined as well, which isn't terrible by itself, but the only things they replaced it with were stuff like the World Congress and Archaeology which were specifically placed in the midgame because by the devs' own acknowledgement, the midgame was a long, tedious and boring slog with nothing happening. Civ 4 is a much faster paced game from beginning to end.

If I'm thinking of a non 4x TBS game that is more war focused and probably does that piece better, it would be Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and especially 3, but they don't include all the other aspects of a 4x game like empire management etc. I've played a lot of 4x games and I have not encountered a single one that was as refined and balanced as this one, even ones that I absolutely adore like Alpha Centauri which is still charming as hell but doesn't even pretend to be balanced.

As far as combat and warfare are concerned, Civ IV beats (for instance) Paradox games any day of the week. In the 4x genre, it's the king. There's nothing that tops it except for games specifically designed for this purpose (battle and warfare simulators and the sort).
red255 Apr 29, 2023 @ 4:44am 
I thought the total war series was if you didn't want dice based combat. never tried hearts of iron or crusader kings.

Hearts of iron I thought was a warfare simulator, mainly the logistics side.

Civ 4 meets what I want in a 4x game, but I admit the combat is lacking.

I'm not playing it for the combat. I'm playing it to build an empire.
A0Zmat May 7, 2023 @ 10:14am 
Originally posted by ulroth:
Nahh . . dont head over to civ fanatics to see the one strat that gets past a bad AI. Firaxis has always been awful at AI opponents so they debuff you and buff them.

Civ4 is the worst. Civ 5 and 6 are better but the AI is stupid and easy to beat.

The Civ games are just bad war games.

Just find another game with better programming.

Yeah, Total War has definitely a better warfare system than Civ 4. But well, Total war is a game about war, not about developping a civ to launch a mega space ship first. If you want a war game, don't play civ. It's much much more than a simple wargame (with sometime dumb AI), and quite different on some aspect. You shouldn't play civ and expect it to be 100% about war. It might be lacking but I think we all play it because we love the whole game, not only the warfare system.

As for the AI, they are pretty good for diplomacy, especially with mods. But yeah, they would probably suck without any bonus. But I think it's all the interest of the game. You're the player, you are supposed to be smarter than your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ computer. I never play under Noble difficulty for this reason. But if you think the AI is unfair just play in Settler. There are a lot of different difficulty settings.

Also iirc the AI normally don't have any bonus in the combat RNG. So OP either missed an important strategic factor (low HP, promotion, defense bonus, siege weapon and air support ...), or he had an absurdly amount of bad luck. You can always save scum and try a different move to reset the RNG in this case and see if you really had bad luck.

Also tip : press shift + right click to see your probability to win with a selected unit
red255 May 19, 2023 @ 6:07am 
played a game, Got somehow to 1800 and the AI had destroyers. I don't know what happened with the economy. anyways, I move my ships out, and get attacked by his destroyers, despite him not having vision, he just knows they are there. Could chock this up to moving his units, in all possible directions and loading an earlier save until he finds something, so its not EXACTLY something the player cannot do. But it was frustrating how he was sinking my battleships with destroyers.

didn't ruin me or anything, just delayed my victory a few turns. but the point is the AI has global vision, which always bugs me, when I don't. I mean it would make "SENSE" post satelights and Radar to HAVE global vision, but I don't.

it would make sense for a unit witih a MOV of 8 to have vision of 8 but it doesn't.

but its not an advantage the player doesn't have provided he can load an earlier save.
sovijus May 21, 2023 @ 1:33pm 
Originally posted by red255:
played a game, Got somehow to 1800 and the AI had destroyers. I don't know what happened with the economy. anyways, I move my ships out, and get attacked by his destroyers, despite him not having vision, he just knows they are there. Could chock this up to moving his units, in all possible directions and loading an earlier save until he finds something, so its not EXACTLY something the player cannot do. But it was frustrating how he was sinking my battleships with destroyers.

didn't ruin me or anything, just delayed my victory a few turns. but the point is the AI has global vision, which always bugs me, when I don't. I mean it would make "SENSE" post satelights and Radar to HAVE global vision, but I don't.

it would make sense for a unit witih a MOV of 8 to have vision of 8 but it doesn't.

but its not an advantage the player doesn't have provided he can load an earlier save.
AI in Civ4 doesn't have global vision, it's one of the few areas where AI doesn't get advantage over the player. They are constricted by vision. My guess is AI probably had enough spy points on you to have vision on your cities.
red255 May 21, 2023 @ 6:12pm 
in the middle of the ocean?
ovnxize Sep 25, 2023 @ 3:31pm 
Originally posted by Virgil:
Originally posted by ulroth:
Nahh . . dont head over to civ fanatics to see the one strat that gets past a bad AI. Firaxis has always been awful at AI opponents so they debuff you and buff them.

Civ4 is the worst. Civ 5 and 6 are better but the AI is stupid and easy to beat.

The Civ games are just bad war games.

Just find another game with better programming.

The one strat? There are countless, depending on what your aims are. If you're referring to the Cuirassier strat (which is arguably the most popular and effective warmonger strat and is very effective), that is certainly viable but there are many others as well. Elepults, Horse Archers, Praetorians, Riflemen/Cannons, Bombers combo'd with anything, nukes, the list goes on for breakout military strats for any given time period. If you know the fundamental mechanics, you can get pretty creative with how you pursue your chosen victory condition within the parameters of the game. If you understand the diplomacy system as well as how to wage war properly in general, you can also do much better at avoiding unwanted conflicts if you desire to pursue a more peaceful strategy instead... or punish an aggressive enemy who attacked you by making them pay you an arm and a leg to back off on your counterattack if you don't outright conquer them.

As for Civ being a bad wargame, that is definitely subjective. If Civ 4 is a bad war game, I'd challenge you to find me a 4x game that does it better - and no, Civ 5 and 6 are not improvements in warfare. I won't touch Civ 6 (plenty of others have), but in Civ 5 the AI is completely incapable of utilizing 1UPT effectively at all and can be hard stopped with a few ranged units with ease. That is hardly compelling gameplay. Every other system in the game was simplified and streamlined as well, which isn't terrible by itself, but the only things they replaced it with were stuff like the World Congress and Archaeology which were specifically placed in the midgame because by the devs' own acknowledgement, the midgame was a long, tedious and boring slog with nothing happening. Civ 4 is a much faster paced game from beginning to end.

If I'm thinking of a non 4x TBS game that is more war focused and probably does that piece better, it would be Heroes of Might and Magic 2 and especially 3, but they don't include all the other aspects of a 4x game like empire management etc. I've played a lot of 4x games and I have not encountered a single one that was as refined and balanced as this one, even ones that I absolutely adore like Alpha Centauri which is still charming as hell but doesn't even pretend to be balanced.
The only redeemable thing about Humankind is the warfare
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