AI agression on BTS vs vanilla.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Hello, I am playing the vanilla game and I was wondering whether the AI agression changes in the different versions.

On vanilla, there really seems to be very little wars unless me the player actively declares on someone else or get declated on, specially by the agressive civs.

But I rarely see wars unless it's the more agressive leaders getting in trouble. The religion differences don't really seem to matter unless it is the player. The AI more often than not start liking each other and remain that way during the entire game.

I have watched some playthroughs on youtube and they all are pretty much on BTS. Bribing seems more feasible as well as sparking tensions by religion.

I was wondering if this is actually the case or im just getting unlucky.

[linda6943]

Yes, I think that BTS has a more aggressive AI than vanilla, and Warlords more aggressive still.
I've found that playing "rude" seems to provoke the other civs into war. By playing rude, I mean:
1. Never open your borders to ANYONE, not even if he's your vassal.
2. Crowd your nearest neighbor: build as close to his borders as you can; send spies into his country; refuse to trade with him unless it's to your advantage (which is nearly never, or if he's a vassal to you.)
3. Be rude to everyone EXCEPT your vassal, if you've got one. It pays to be nice to vassals.
4. I usually play at Settler level, for a lot of reasons, so I don't have much aggression against me until I provoke it.

Good luck, Disciple! Hope this helps.

[linda6943]

P. S. I don't usually play vanilla, because I like building The Great Wall, which keeps out the Barbarians. When I play BTS, I usually disable the Random Events, which to me are a pain in the posterior.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

By provocation does that mean they attack each other or they attack the player?

I'll probably move onto warlords soon and finally to BTS. I like to get the vanilla experience first. On vanilla there aren't vassals and having buddies seems difficult. (I mean, they can come around asking for state of the art new tech I have just discovered and never give anything in return)

As for the open borders. Lately I'm doubtful whether they might actually provoke an AI into war. Lately i have been keeping mine closed or just open long enough to scout really fast and then close vs the aggressive AI's and haven't gotten into much trouble. But it could also be that I'm learning the ropes and when an agressive neighbor pops up, I start preparations much earlier than before.

[ghpstage]

The military AI was weak in vanilla, and got upgraded considerably in time for warlords. How much that translated to increased aggression I don't remember.

It has been a long time since I spent much time playing versions other than BTS, but I don't remember it being particularly difficult to bribe. Nor do I remember how it was in Civ 3, but if the AI were very lax about the conditions then the requirements to allow it in Civ 4 may come as a shock.
This is about bribery and appears to be about vanilla specifically
https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/military/lets-make-a-world-war/

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

In civ 3 any war was a go for the AI. They could get in trouble themselves or you could pay them to join you (but you had to involve yourself at least simbollically) and as long as you had the cash, luxuries, techs or gpt you could bring everyone in. This proved paramount to getting my first emperor win, as otherwise the AI's would start to accumulate troops as well As getting ahead on the science race. Not getting someone into a war could also mean the other side could pay them off too. So that alone is a big incentive.

[EnemigoDeLaMafia]

Messaggio originale di ghpstage:

The military AI was weak in vanilla, and got upgraded considerably in time for warlords. How much that translated to increased aggression I don't remember.

It has been a long time since I spent much time playing versions other than BTS, but I don't remember it being particularly difficult to bribe. Nor do I remember how it was in Civ 3, but if the AI were very lax about the conditions then the requirements to allow it in Civ 4 may come as a shock.
This is about bribery and appears to be about vanilla specifically
https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/military/lets-make-a-world-war/

Read the article, I usually run into #4 we couldn't betray our close friends and #2 we would have nothing to gain.

Only once I have managed to really spread religion properly. But then getting them to convert proved fruitless (they just switched back). Often they'll switch to theocracy so you can't further spread the religion.

Regarding BTS, I understand your vassals can go to war with you? In a particular playthrough the guy bribed everyone into a conflict, then slowly adquiring vassalage and went to a domination win with rifles.

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

Messaggio originale di linda6943:

1. Never open your borders to ANYONE, not even if he's your vassal.

This is precisely the type of thing you should not do in a Civilization game, though, unless you're just doing it for the lols on settler difficulty, I suppose.

[linda6943]

Messaggio originale di Disciple.:

Messaggio originale di ghpstage:

The military AI was weak in vanilla, and got upgraded considerably in time for warlords. How much that translated to increased aggression I don't remember.

It has been a long time since I spent much time playing versions other than BTS, but I don't remember it being particularly difficult to bribe. Nor do I remember how it was in Civ 3, but if the AI were very lax about the conditions then the requirements to allow it in Civ 4 may come as a shock.
This is about bribery and appears to be about vanilla specifically
https://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/strategy/military/lets-make-a-world-war/

Read the article, I usually run into #4 we couldn't betray our close friends and #2 we would have nothing to gain.

Only once I have managed to really spread religion properly. But then getting them to convert proved fruitless (they just switched back). Often they'll switch to theocracy so you can't further spread the religion.

Regarding BTS, I understand your vassals can go to war with you? In a particular playthrough the guy bribed everyone into a conflict, then slowly adquiring vassalage and went to a domination win with rifles.

Disciple, in BTS, your vassal will go to war with you. If you're going for a conquest victory, you never have to conquer your vassal; he counts as if he were a conquest. In Warlords, your vassal will fight with you, but has to be destroyed to get a conquest victory. (When I play Warlords, I usually disable "Vassalage."
You pointed out another point: trading knowledge is almost always NOT in your favor. That can be disabled, too.

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

Tech trading can very well work in your favor, specially on lower difficulty levels, but then you have to actually know how to play the game to be able do such a thing.

[ghpstage]

Messaggio originale di Disciple.:

Read the article, I usually run into #4 we couldn't betray our close friends and #2 we would have nothing to gain.

It varies wildly between AIs, a lot aren't very happy to got to war when asked but some make good attack dogs if treated right. Know your enemy[forums.civfanatics.com] is a detailed guide about AI leader behaviours and war bribe requirements are included, as an example

Monty - Can be bribed to war against AI: Cautious (If he is pleased or lower with target AI)
Toku - Can be bribed to war against AI: Pleased (If he is pleased or lower with target AI)

Its the sociopaths in that tend to be easiest to use, but there are surprises
Zara - Can be bribed to war against AI: Cautious (If he is pleased or lower with target AI)

Messaggio originale di Disciple.:

Only once I have managed to really spread religion properly. But then getting them to convert proved fruitless (they just switched back). Often they'll switch to theocracy so you can't further spread the religion.

The rules governing which religion an AI will adopt have an enormous bias towards any religions that they found themselves, its so large that you sometimes see a civ suddenly declare itself a global pariah after founding Taoism, Christianity or Islam when they didn't previously have a holy city by adopting that when pretty much everyone else is either Hindu, Buddhist or Jewish.
You will never successfully turn their opinion away from religion(s) that they own, even if you manage to flip them out they will simply revert, though this could create a small window for bribes.
There is a similar but smaller bias towards holy cities owned by the 'team', but this only starts mattering in later versions with vassals.

Two other biases exist, one towards the current state religion, and a very small one for their favourite religion. Unlike holy city ownership, neither of these are large enough to overcome much of a gap between the population in cities of each religion, meaning that you have to spread it to most if not all cities to have a hope of having a switch stick. This would be very costly and I have never seen it used.

Messaggio originale di Disciple.:

Regarding BTS, I understand your vassals can go to war with you? In a particular playthrough the guy bribed everyone into a conflict, then slowly adquiring vassalage and went to a domination win with rifles.

Vassals in BTS became part of the masters team, and are forced into every war that the master declares, having one also makes a mess of your diplomacy.

Messaggio originale di Thomas Turbando, o jurista:

Tech trading can very well work in your favor, specially on lower difficulty levels, but then you have to actually know how to play the game to be able do such a thing.

People get too caught up with the bad offers that the AI puts forward (which ought be ignored) and some things seen when you ask them, but the AI will offer you the 'fair' price if you ask it what it will trade for your offer provided they have enough gold to cover the minutia.

While individual trades will favour the AI the mechanic as a whole it really favours the human as we are able to use it more effectively, mostly by brokering techs around to different AIs or using them as war bribes, but also to improve diplomacy.
The highest difficulties would be a lot harder if it were switched off.

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

Messaggio originale di ghpstage:

You will never successfully turn their opinion away from religion(s) that they own, even if you manage to flip them out they will simply revert, though this could create a small window for bribes.

Sometimes the AI will stick to big religions despite having found themselves a little cult, just so they can enjoy the diplomatic bonus that comes with it. The best way to ensure religious dominance is to spread your religion to key cities that belong to neighbouring powerhouses, so that you can implicitly form ties of enmity and friendship that are going to be taken into consideration by the AI when choosing its state religion. Usually in my playthroughs my religion is always the most - or second most - influential one.

[ghpstage]

The AI does not consider diplomacy in any way when deciding which religion to run, it simply carries out a comparison of religion scores that can be summed up as
[Population in cities with religion x (mentioned) Weightings]

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

The AI behaves in a way so as to consistently form ties of enmity and friendship, both between themselves and between a computer-controlled nation and the human player. That is a demonstrable - not to mention evident - fact, and religion plays a key role.

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

Messaggio originale di ghpstage:

The AI does not consider diplomacy in any way when deciding which religion to run, it simply carries out a comparison of religion scores that can be summed up as
[Population in cities with religion x (mentioned) Weightings]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ai-favorite-religion.351328/

[Thomas Turbando, o jurista]

"People seem to be spreading some misinformation on this thread.

The AI's favorite Religion plays into a few different calculations:

* Tech Choices. If the AI sees that a tech gives them a religion & the religion is their favorite, they will wieght that tech higher.

* Religion Choices. The AI choose their best religion based on a number of factors (like how many others have it [Yes, the AI considers how many other players have the religion as well], how many cities have it, etc...), but the wieght for the religion is increased by 20% if it is the AI's "Favorite Religion". So the AI will tend to like their favorite religion more, but not in excess."

Emphasis added.