Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword

Sid Meier's Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword

Caveman 2 Cosmos help
Anyone else have severe lag at turn 1, its so stuttery and unresponsive for me.

win10
3770k
2400mhz Ram
gtx 1080
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Showing 1-15 of 21 comments
Shampagen Aug 9, 2017 @ 7:55pm 
Prob the fact that the map is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ huge. I can't really handle it either. Civ 4 doesn't run well with huge maps like the one in Caveman2Cosmos, even on computers that would otherwise run super well.
Arbadacarba Aug 10, 2017 @ 2:09pm 
ive tried smaller maps, seems this is just normal performance for the C2C mod.
Maddin Aug 13, 2017 @ 7:40pm 
Do you have problems while making your own move or while waiting for the next move?
Arbadacarba Aug 13, 2017 @ 8:54pm 
Originally posted by Maddin:
Do you have problems while making your own move or while waiting for the next move?
Although turns can be slow i really dont mind that considering the complexity of the mod, its that unit selection, menu use, animations and general game flow during my turn is very stuttery and rather unpleasant. I tried playing but in the end couldnt adjust to the --interact with game --Wait 2 secs --game responds, --select a unit --wait 2 seconds --unit selected ect..
Zatronium Aug 21, 2017 @ 8:14am 
The problem is Windows 10. The DWM model is buggy and can interact badly with UWP. I bet if you check the Event Viewer you have a bazillion errors from the COM+ Subsystem. I've had to fix this on a lot of Windows 10 computers.
Arbadacarba Aug 21, 2017 @ 8:30am 
Originally posted by Zatronium:
The problem is Windows 10. The DWM model is buggy and can interact badly with UWP. I bet if you check the Event Viewer you have a bazillion errors from the COM+ Subsystem. I've had to fix this on a lot of Windows 10 computers.

I have no issues with anyother software or game, i will check for errors when i get home.
Zatronium Aug 21, 2017 @ 9:17am 
That's normal for Windows 10. It doesn't crash, it just degrades.
Arbadacarba Aug 21, 2017 @ 10:06am 
Originally posted by Zatronium:
That's normal for Windows 10. It doesn't crash, it just degrades.
First i have heard of this, havent had issues with Win10 myself but imagine its hardware dependant. CIV4 runs flawlessly in Vanilla, or with any other mod including FFH on Win10, zero issues with any other software.
Interesting opinion though, can you link to something that shows Win10 performance degrading over time?
Zatronium Aug 23, 2017 @ 6:32am 
Whereas earlier versions of windows would pile up cached files, registry entries, and file fragments, the HDD physical sector layout and FAT32 would eventually cause the system to crash. That is, if you don't install and uninstall a lot of software, you'll only see marginal slowdown and never crash until the drive dies.

This changed with Windows Vista and even moreso with Windows 10, where updates are forced, and NTFS does not manage heavily used disks very well. Rather than wait until the system crashes, the WMI performance counters work to correct minor problems in the background. Which is why rarely some users will see the system claim "your disk is dirty" and begin repairs all on its own.

However, because the new mantra is to avoid crashes at all cost, any issues which can't be automatically fixed by dumping cache files or reorganizing the MFT will go unchecked. This slows down the system - but so long as you don't actually use that broken piece of software, you'll never notice it.

Windows 8 included UWP, which was a step backward in app development in the name of cross-compatibility. It's not very fault tolerant and tends to break easily. Thankfully, Microsoft knew this and built the platform to completely rebuild itself when a fault is detected. That is what happens in the background when your app vanishes for a second and then reappears with all your work. It's a kind of sandboxing meant to fix issues before they bother the user.

Windows 10 included a new DWM which interacts poorly with UWP to the extent that you can corrupt the OS just by doing certian actions on the desktop.

Anyway, you haven't actually checked for the issue I mentioned, right?
Arbadacarba Aug 23, 2017 @ 11:17am 
I did check within event viewer, no Com+ errors. Does what your describing require a custom view?
What your asserting regarding windows across versions is pretty fascinating. What kind of symptoms are evident to the user in these cases, do you agree with the direction MS has gone with each new version, or is it more pro/con.
Also you mentioned forcing updates, are you talking about WIN update?
Very curious about OS corruption from simple desktop interactions, that would be a very bad flaw.
Last edited by Arbadacarba; Aug 23, 2017 @ 11:20am
Zatronium Aug 24, 2017 @ 5:28am 
Administrative Events. If you see nothing from COM+, then check for lots of ESENT eventid: 508 warnings. Only one or two isn't a big deal, but if there's a lot then that's a different symptom of the same problem.

Anyway, if you don't have any of the above I'd have to check more throughly, but I usually get paid for that, and this is the internet. Lol. If so, you have a more unique problem than I'm used to seeing. Which does occasionally happen.

The game's modding library is standard across platforms, and it's fairly simple compared to modern versions. There's nothing about the 1080 which cannot handle Civ IV's mod platform or animations from the mod. You could of course try doing a Steam rebuild of the game's files and re-downloading the mod. But it's surely not your hardware.

My opinion? Bill Gates stepped down from Microsoft, and the company is now run by a former marketing executive. I don't mind the direction of Windows prior to Windows 10 - it became more stable and safe in Vista and more modular in 8.

The problem is this marketing guy has full control over Windows 10. His priority has been to change the name of the UWP platform five times. How about fixing the bugs in said platform? Newp. I suspect they're cooking up a sixth name for UWP, instead. It's about all he can do.

Never mind UWP - they didn't bother to patch the NSA exploit for 16 months until someone, um, exploited it. Then they scrambled to put out a patch which screwed up people's work computers. I had a lot of jobs that week. Not removing a virus but fixing the many computers the patch broke.

Truly, why do you think they decided not to release another OS after Windows 10? It isn't a marketing game like Apple's OSX. It's because that dunce can't make a new one.

So yeah, I consider Windows 10 a liability for work, and unreliable for games.
Last edited by Zatronium; Aug 24, 2017 @ 2:31pm
Vaeringjar Feb 18, 2018 @ 7:17pm 
hmm, sorry for the necro, but I have a 6600k + 1070, and I have this interface issue as well, where many interactions take like 2 seconds to process, particularly in the build queue.

I moved the game to my SSD, and somehow it feels like it takes longer to load than it did on my HDD.

In administrative events, for the trimeframe of my last play session, there's not anything related to Civ4, no spam of any kind, just 3 or 4 completely unrelated specific things in there.

Under logs the only ESENT I see is 916
Arbadacarba Feb 18, 2018 @ 11:37pm 
i gave up, let me know if you figure anything out.
Vaeringjar Feb 19, 2018 @ 6:47am 
do you happen to know if the interface lag is an issue on all systems?
Zatronium Feb 19, 2018 @ 7:10am 
Originally posted by Vaeringjar:
Under logs the only ESENT I see is 916

I actually did not know about this bug. Unfortunately, it is a completely different windows 10 error which I do not yet know how to fix manually. Thus my only advice is to run a system refresh.

A quick google search shows people complaining that this is related to crashes and framerate problems with games. Other posts suggest it's caused by a lock-up in the hardware compatibility layer. It is definitely caused by the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update (as with so many other bugs.) As usual, the Microsoft MVPs are utterly unhelpful: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance/can-microsoft-solve-this-annoying-problem/54ac1381-d55d-4b6c-a196-16e770bceddd

For now please just try the system refresh and see if that fixes it. It is related to system-wide Windows 10 corruption so please do not think it is just a game problem you can ignore. Here are the instructions: https://www.onmsft.com/news/windows-10-reset-refresh-windows-10-installation-better-performance

DO NOT click "remove everything" unless you have backed up all your files. If I get any more info I will update you all.

Edit: I forgot to mention; Civ IV has a software bug where it does not handle system input correctly. It is unpatched even in the latest version but most users will never notice it unless they go searching system logs. It is likely this problem is interacting with the ESENT bug(s) which is why the problem is so severe while playing Civ even if you have no symptoms in regular Windows.

For anyone wondering, ESENT is a core component of how Windows services store data. It's been bugged ever since Vista and Microsoft has not bothered to fix it. Windows 10 uses and modifies ESENT much more agressively than earlier versions of Windows hence why the problem is so prevelant in Win 10. ESENT 916 appears to be a brand new bug in already buggy code.
Last edited by Zatronium; Feb 19, 2018 @ 7:25am
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Date Posted: Aug 8, 2017 @ 4:49pm
Posts: 21