What's up with the story?

[rock]

Spoilers ahead:

At the end of Shenmue 2, Ryo had just defeated several strong martial artists, including Master Baihu, a skilled practioner of the deadly Tiger Swallow style. The same style used by Lan Di, the main bad guy of the game. Ryo has also trained in kung fu for several weeks, becoming a lot better in just about every way by incorporating kung fu techniques into his karate style. He has also fought all sorts of goons, including a chainsaw wielding maniac and a guy the size of a subway train. He is, at the end of Shenmue 2, a very competent martial artist who knows how to think on his feet and analyze his opponents for weaknesses.

Shenmue 3 picks up the story and now Ryo has to fight some backwater gangsters who like to hang out and cause trouble. So what happens? Ryo gets beat up by some muscle-bound dude by getting hit by the same move not once, but TWICE. A move that is super easy to telegraph and avoid. There area no prompts to avoid it, he just gets hit. The same happens when he meets the leader of the gangsters, who is an even bigger muscle-bound dude with nice shoes that beats Ryo TWICE, again with the same move.

What gives? What happened to the competent Ryo who only gets defeated if the player fails, or when he faces an overwhelmingly strong foe he has no chance of winning against (Chai in Shenmue 1, though you can still win that fight).

[Stnank]

On one hand it is a bit jarring. But I also understand it. Ryo is completely outclassed in weight and raw strength against the two thug leaders, Yanlang and Longqi Ge. The difference between them and Dou Niu is that they actually know martial arts and aren't just a charging bull. Especially Longgi. And IRL it doesn't matter if you know martial arts, someone who is that much bigger than you AND skilled is gonna kick your ass no matter what. So Ryo having to train up to take them out doesn't bother me as much.

The real outlier here is Master Baihu. No clue with that. Totally possible he pulled a "I was merely testing you". Or simply a soft retcon and Ryo got lucky.

[rock]

I would say their strength would matter if throws were in the game and they actively used them to ground Ryo, but that isn't the case from what I've seen. I haven't played the game itself, but I'm just wondering if that is there to pad out the content for Ryo to spend more time training before proceeding to the next area. It's just so lame that Ryo fights both twice and wins only to lose in a cutscene with no player input.

[Stnank]

Well in a way yeah. Shenmue I and II were all about training under different masters learning little by little. Same thing happens here. It's all an excuse to train in the end. Ryo is still a young guy trying to take down a man who killed his father in a single blow. He needs all the training he can get.

[dprog1995]

Ryo probably stopped training when travelling from Hong Kong to the Village.That made him a little rusty I think.

That is the only explanation I can think off.

[rock]

Originally posted by dprog1995:

Ryo probably stopped training when travelling from Hong Kong to the Village.That made him a little rusty I think.

That is the only explanation I can think off.

The journey there is supposed to be 3 days, and he could have trained inbetween traveling. I don't think it would make him rusty.

[indask8]

Common videogame trope, just like Metroid where Samus has an owerpowered suit at the end of each game, just to start with nothing on the next one.

But yeah they went overboard on this one, Shenmue I and II had a nice progression curve, Ryo is surprisingly weak at the start of SIII with several scripted unwinnable fights on top of that

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by RockTheShoulder:

Spoilers ahead:

At the end of Shenmue 2, Ryo had just defeated several strong martial artists, including Master Baihu, a skilled practioner of the deadly Tiger Swallow style. The same style used by Lan Di, the main bad guy of the game. Ryo has also trained in kung fu for several weeks, becoming a lot better in just about every way by incorporating kung fu techniques into his karate style. He has also fought all sorts of goons, including a chainsaw wielding maniac and a guy the size of a subway train. He is, at the end of Shenmue 2, a very competent martial artist who knows how to think on his feet and analyze his opponents for weaknesses.

Shenmue 3 picks up the story and now Ryo has to fight some backwater gangsters who like to hang out and cause trouble. So what happens? Ryo gets beat up by some muscle-bound dude by getting hit by the same move not once, but TWICE. A move that is super easy to telegraph and avoid. There area no prompts to avoid it, he just gets hit. The same happens when he meets the leader of the gangsters, who is an even bigger muscle-bound dude with nice shoes that beats Ryo TWICE, again with the same move.

What gives? What happened to the competent Ryo who only gets defeated if the player fails, or when he faces an overwhelmingly strong foe he has no chance of winning against (Chai in Shenmue 1, though you can still win that fight).

Shenmue III is like Seinfeld, there is no story, its a game about nothing.

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by WinterzShadow:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

Shenmue III is like Seinfeld, there is no story, its a game about nothing.

There is a story for this game. So why are you here? Did someone tell you to not like this game so you're trying to be one of the cool guys?

Tell me the story of this game. Wait, I'll do it for you; game complete ignores the plot of the previous two games, and has the main character learning the same move TWICE to NOT USE IT against the person he is searching for since 1999.

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by WinterzShadow:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

Tell me the story of this game. Wait, I'll do it for you; game complete ignores the plot of the previous two games, and has the main character learning the same move TWICE to NOT USE IT against the person he is searching for since 1999.

There's no point wasting time on this. Either you understand what is happening in that instance of the journey or you don't. Might want to wiki up, ignorant one.

I just posted the entire "story" of this game, and you have absolutely nothing to say other than insults.

[Ferrick]

Originally posted by WinterzShadow:

Originally posted by Coleco_84:

Shenmue III is like Seinfeld, there is no story, its a game about nothing.

There is a story for this game. So why are you here? Did someone tell you to not like this game so you're trying to be one of the cool guys?

wow talk about being ultra defensive, unfortunately for you that IS literally what happened in game, it really ends with Ryo not being able to land a hit after all this time to Lan Di and Lan Di just Fs off at the end, which makes the entire thing pointless as it really added nothing

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by Red Mage Ferrick:

Originally posted by WinterzShadow:

There is a story for this game. So why are you here? Did someone tell you to not like this game so you're trying to be one of the cool guys?

wow talk about being ultra defensive, unfortunately for you that IS literally what happened in game, it really ends with Ryo not being able to land a hit after all this time to Lan Di and Lan Di just Fs off at the end, which makes the entire thing pointless as it really added nothing

Game ignores not only the character growth of the first two games, it ignores the character growth in THIS game, which ends LITERALLY like the opening sequence of the first game.

[xAlphaStarOmegax]

Originally posted by Red Mage Ferrick:

it really ends with Ryo not being able to land a hit after all this time to Lan Di and Lan Di just Fs off at the end

It actually does make sense though that this wouldn't be the end, and that Ryo didn't defeat Lan Di yet. Think about it, if you've played Shenmue I you would have seen Lan Di defeat Iwao who trained in the martial arts for a VERY long time with just one thrust to the gut.

So yea the game isn't meant to be played like a fast action game, it's meant to be a journey about Ryo training in the martial arts to one day defeat Lan Di. So we cannot expect him to defeat Lan Di in just 3 games, like the creator said it will take many chapters / a few more games to see Shenmues full story told.

[Ferrick]

Originally posted by xAlphaStarOmegax:

Originally posted by Red Mage Ferrick:

it really ends with Ryo not being able to land a hit after all this time to Lan Di and Lan Di just Fs off at the end

It actually does make sense though that this wouldn't be the end, and that Ryo didn't defeat Lan Di yet. Think about it, if you've played Shenmue I you would have seen Lan Di defeat Iwao who trained in the martial arts for a VERY long time with just one thrust to the gut.

So yea the game isn't meant to be played like a fast action game, it's meant to be a journey about Ryo training in the martial arts to one day defeat Lan Di. So we cannot expect him to defeat Lan Di in just 3 games, like the creator said it will take many chapters / a few more games to see Shenmues full story told.

no it doesn't make sense

sure I don't expect Ryo to actually beat Lan Di, but after the two games, I'd expect at LEAST some semblance of improvement, which DOES NOT EVEN HAPPEN as Ryo loses to thugs for story reasons

[Coleco_84]

Originally posted by Red Mage Ferrick:

Originally posted by xAlphaStarOmegax:

It actually does make sense though that this wouldn't be the end, and that Ryo didn't defeat Lan Di yet. Think about it, if you've played Shenmue I you would have seen Lan Di defeat Iwao who trained in the martial arts for a VERY long time with just one thrust to the gut.

So yea the game isn't meant to be played like a fast action game, it's meant to be a journey about Ryo training in the martial arts to one day defeat Lan Di. So we cannot expect him to defeat Lan Di in just 3 games, like the creator said it will take many chapters / a few more games to see Shenmues full story told.

no it doesn't make sense

sure I don't expect Ryo to actually beat Lan Di, but after the two games, I'd expect at LEAST some semblance of improvement, which DOES NOT EVEN HAPPEN as Ryo loses to thugs for story reasons

Ryo beat Chai and Dou Niu in the first two games, that progresion gets threw out the window in the first half hour of the game by having Ryo beaten by some random lucky hit guy.
Then he gets beaten TWICE by other random people, learn the exact same move twice, and when he faces Lan Di, he loses (not using the move he learned twice, mind you) in the exact same way he lost in the opening sequence of Shenmue I, like the entirity of the three games never happened, all the training, all the martial artists Ryo met, all the big names Ryo defeated, meant nothing, Ryo is still the same child who was taken down with a single hit at his dad's dojo 20 years ago.

And I have to read that "this is exactly what fans wanted"? F-off.

[Stnank]

The way I see it, Ryo at the point he is in Shenmue III, is at least -close- to where his father was, skill-wise. Definitely not discipline-wise. He's getting there. But even Iwao Hazuki couldn't land a single hit on Lan-Di during the opening of Shenmue 1 and died in a single move. I know it's disappointing, but this is honestly the most believable outcome so far. I think it does a great job of illustrating just how strong Lan-Di is. Even after all these accomplishments, Ryo's still out of his league. I think it would have been more ridiculous to see Ryo win or even come close to, considering he started his path of revenge in late '86 and he's fighting Lan-Di in early '87. A couple of months isn't gonna push him past his father/ bring him up to Lan-Di's skill that fast.

Not to mention, as most revenge stories go, this is probably gonna end in Revenge = bad. So all this time training with such a little payoff is probably at least somewhat intentional.