Balance Suggestions

[CLYDER8]

The Path of the Ocean update is here! I really can't be more satisfied with where this is going. I have always felt that we need to use a larger variety of units to win, then just spamming out the same type of unit until the enemy is overwhelmed. However, there are some things that I think that should be fixed.

Techs:
I love that the market makes you research a variety of tech for it to be useful, I like the idea that a large variety of tech is needed to win effectively, it makes the game feel more interesting. But, there are techs I believe could be a little stronger: Diplomacy is a good example, when I play I almost never get Diplomacy, not because I don't like the tech in concept, but, it feels... underpowered. The cloaks are pretty much useless in mid and late game, and the embassies do not generate stars like some other tier-3 techs. I feel that embassies could generate 1-2 more stars per turn. You wont use them in 1v1s and in group matches, sure ~15 extra stars per turn is quite nice, but a good market setup can generate way more and is not dependent on allies. Not to mention, tribes such as Polaris and Cymanti have almost no reason to even research strategy due to the fact they can't put defenders in boats, so these tribes have even less reason to get Diplomacy. Another tech I think could use a buff is Spiritualism, five stars for a forest?! I mean I can see why, but if the cost was lowered to say, 3 stars then that would give it a better cheaper to use synergy with chivalry, not to mention a much needed buff to Hoodrick, also it would give better reason to research Archery. I also think Meditation and Free Spirit could perhaps be a bit more useful, but I can't think of anything for said techs.

Units:
Actually, I feel swordsmen should be nerfed. Swordsmen spam is an incredibly viable strategy but is also very boring. What I am considering is nerfing swordsmen defence down to 2 then adding a unit provided by mining called the bulwark. The bulwark would be a unit with 20hp, 3 defence, 0 attack, and 1 movement. It would have stiff and a feature called protect, which gives all nearby swordsmen +1 defence and all other units a defense bonus if they don't already have one (A unit can only benefit from one bulwark at a time). Bulwarks would cost 10~15 stars to make. The purpose of this unit would be to make combat more tactful. You would be simultaneously trying to protect your own bulwarks and defeat the enemies to weaken them. That aside, I also think mindbenders could use a bit of a buff... Or perhaps be divided into two different units: One of which would be the mindbender and have the convert feature and perhaps other interesting abilities. The other unit would be called the medic, which would be more durable and have the ability to dash and heal allies (I don't know how any of this would work with cymanti but these are just ideas). The medic could possibly be provided by meditation giving Ai-mo a bit of a needed buff.

Special tribes:
It was mentioned that the special tribes would be looked into and reworked/buffed/given more content, but, I have some personal suggestions,

Aquarion: Actually... With all the recent buffs I can't call Aquarion the worst tribe anymore... Regardless, they could use some buffs/new cool features, the devs are way more creative then I am, so I'm sure you guys will do something good, but I have no idea what to do for this tribe.

Elyrion: This tribe used to be quite great, but they're arguably the worst tribe now (Dosen't stop 50% of the people I fight online from being them though). I feel, as far as balance goes, giving them the ability to burn trees might be enough, but seeing as polaris/cymanti are much more complicated and these special tribes just keep getting more unique (I am scared as to what the Ancients will be like (in a good way)) Elyrion will start to fall behind in content and personally I've always felt they could be a bit more magical. But I have no clue about any suggestions for that.

Polaris: I actually thought this tribe might have become weaker with the update but after playing around with them a little I would say they're stronger than ever. I guess the could use a little more ice stuff if your wanting them to be as unique as cymanti, but, they feel fine right now.

Cymanti: This tribe went from being the most OP thing to almost the worst. I don't feel like they need any more content, but defiantly need some balancing. I have lots of suggestions. First off the navy: Now, cymanti were never meant to be a naval tribe but now it is just pitiful. Raychi (the only water unit, phychi barely count) are literally rammers but worse. Not to mention the clathurus can easily be outdone by markets. Interestingly though, cymanti can, in theory, extract more population from the water than the other tribes. One thing would be to make clathurus a land based building that perhaps gives stars per nearby fungi. But, that still doesn't change the fact their navy is garbage. My other suggestion is a major naval reform for cymanti. Here are my thoughts: Algae would no longer provide population but solely be a bridge: It would cost 3 stars inside your own territory but can be placed outside your borders for the cost of six stars. This would create a more interesting setup as it would let cymanti players more easily send land units up to enemy ships (At a high price), however algae would no longer count as a terrain penalty for enemy boats letting them sail through with ease. Also to prevent just spamming fast land units (doomux) to obliterate enemy navies algae would inflict a minus one movement penalty to land based units trying to use it, friendly or not (units with fly would ignore this also the penalty could not reduce a units speed below one). This would give bombers with a front line of rammers an edge against cymanti. Also the raychi would be made slightly better. They would lose explode (pretty useless anyway but it also encourages the use of more phychi for poison). And raychi's attack would be boosted to 3.5 or maybe 4 allowing them to preform better against bombers and scouts but still making defender rammers a solid counter. Also clathurus could alternatively be used like this: 1 star for every nearby algae, and one population for every two algae nearby (still would connect cities). Navy aside I feel like other changes could be made with cymanti's land comabt. I feel like mycelium could perhaps use a nerf. Sure it doesn't give a speed boost but 5 star mycelium can connect about 18 stars worth of cities if you were using roads. So, I suggest raising the mycelium price to ten stars. Doomux on the other hand could use a bit of a buff. I feel explosions dealing half damage was a bit too much of a nerf. I suggest making explosion damage deal the damage of the unit minus one (So centipedes would stay the same but doomux would deal a swordsman's damage), with this buff the doomux prices could be bumped up to 12 stars though.

Anyways thats it for me. No matter which way this game goes I am exited for whatever happens in the future! Keep up the great work!


Also, concordance day is creeping up, I have a suspicious feeling that the ancients may be coming very, very soon.

[CLYDER8]

Oh, also, should have mentioned, these are just personal suggestions I made for no reason. But if my ideas seem interesting feel free to take inspiration from them.

[CLYDER8]

After playing around a little more I do have some suggestions:

1. Bombers are to OP: Alright, in sea battles everything's fine. But people aren't using them for that. People are just using them like catapults that do splash damage and are more tanky and can't be knight-chained through because they're on water. My suggestion is to reduce the damage of them to 3.

2. Scout Spam: This is actually the most obnoxious tactic in the history of polytopia. It's just infuriating. There is no counter to this, you can't even fight back. Even if the enemy has a worse economy as long as they have more scouts initially and can put out a few per turn, you can't beat this. And if they get some bombers with this you might as well just resign because there is nothing to do. Your units just get pulverized as soon as you put them in a port. My suggestion is to make scouts do 1 damage. Perhaps nerfing bomber defence down to 0 so scouts are still effective against bombers.

3. Rammers are sort of weak: Ok, as a unit rammers are powerful and don't need any buffs. But the way the techs are laid out makes rammers not worth the investment most of the time. Normally fish is far more plentiful than aqua crop, and after fishing you get bombers+starfish. Aquatisim is still good, but doesn't compare in the mid-game. All of this makes early rammers less viable and promotes scout spam.

4. Final Summary: Update was defiantly good in concept but needs balancing. The new tactics get so annoying I just avoid anything with more water then lakes map. I feel that people are abusing things in ways that were not intended (and also suck the fun out of the game). My suggestion is to inflict some sort of damage penalty on ships attacking land units and visa/versa (Bomber splash damage should also be affected but Juggernaut smash damage should not). Also rearranging the tech tree to make the fishing sub-branch much less economically effective would also help. My opinion would be to move fishing into sailing. This would make the Aquaculture branch more useful economically, remove some annoying spawns where some villages require researching to fishing to level them up, and also would promote the use of rammers and ideally help prevent scout spam.

[GoobaGoblin920]

Moving fish to the free diving tech, maybe being able to gain population and stars from starfish would be cool, buffing crabs because they're still way worse than bombers and giant ships. Bombers are way too strong and tridents feel useless once the opponent starts spamming them. Also i notice that when playing aquarion their cities have few resources around them or inconsistent resources. Increasing the spawn rate for one specific resource would be really helpful, i notice that that what you get around your cities is a lot of the time too varied which makes you end up having to spend stupid amounts of stars just to get level 2 or 3 cities.

[GoobaGoblin920]

Forgot to clarify, by giving population and stars from starfish i mean that exclusively for aquarion as a feature

[A little princess]

Rummers are super strong water units that wipe out every scout spam

[CLYDER8]

Originally posted by A little princess:

Rummers are super strong water units that wipe out every scout spam

For the most part I agree with you. The issue occurs when your opponent gets a lot of scouts or alternately gets a few bombers. Then your rammers will get destroyed before they can leave your ports. Best thing to do is get a Juggernaut, but even they can be shredded in a few turns.

[CLYDER8]

Originally posted by ButtPlunger920:

Moving fish to the free diving tech, maybe being able to gain population and stars from starfish would be cool, buffing crabs because they're still way worse than bombers and giant ships. Bombers are way too strong and tridents feel useless once the opponent starts spamming them. Also i notice that when playing aquarion their cities have few resources around them or inconsistent resources. Increasing the spawn rate for one specific resource would be really helpful, i notice that that what you get around your cities is a lot of the time too varied which makes you end up having to spend stupid amounts of stars just to get level 2 or 3 cities.

I like your ideas