Cool game, awful story. My problems with the writing [spoilers]

[Yaddah]

Most writing in science fiction is bad and sadly this game is no exception. But actually the story is worse than just bad - it's infuriating. And that is because the premise, while not terribly original, is really interesting, but the execution is incredibly lazy. The story is full of plotholes which turn it from something that could've been engaging into something that just felt unsatisfying. Here's the worst of it:

1) Humanity's dire state is completely artificial and forced
The game states again and again that humans have grown so reliant on machines, that they have forgotten how to run a society without them. That would make sense, if the game had shown us a bunch of people who have lost all drive and know how in the 700 years of being pampered by machines. Instead we see plenty of people who work in factories, run space shops, transplant brains into robots, fly and maintain space fighters and so on. The world we're told has grown lethargic is actually full of people with amazing skills and the ability to adapt. There is no reason why humanity is in such a bad state. We're just told that they are, despite everything we see indicating that it shouldn't be. And even if humanity is completely dependent on automation, are we to believe that the super-intelligent OMNIs never put in measures that would activate in the case of catastrophic failure?? This aspect of the story just feels like a cheap take against progress.

2) Just build solar panels ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥!
We're told that Neo-N is running out and that this is causing an apocalyptic energy crisis. But I don't care how much more efficient this made up material is - if it isn't available, just build good old solar panels. Humanity is building and maintaining space ships even without the OMNIs. How hard can it be to build a few million solar panels, put em in orbit around the sun and reap near unlimited amounts of energy? All of humanity's problems are completely solvable. The game just pretends that the solution doesn't exist.

3) Kaliban is not intelligent
The game reminds us constantly that the OMNIs are so super-intelligent that humans couldn't possibly understand their thought patterns. Yet, Kaliban doesn't seem to ever do anything remarkable. Sure, he provides tons of exposition, but he doesn't ever come up with any solutions that I or the people in the story couldn't have thought of themselves. But he's not only unimpressive for an AI, he's written like just another person. He makes speech pauses when talking about complicated subjects, for crying out loud. Like it takes him a few moments to gather his thoughts! Even when he's just speaking to himself. Why would a super-intelligence ever have speech pauses?? That completely destroyed the illusion of him being an AI.

4) The ascended OMNIs are needlessly cruel
I get it. It's a nice twist on the humans vs AI plot. But man, does this feel forced. It makes no sense at all. First off, they're in the stars now?? Wat? How? Stars are not computers. Computers are computers. Stars are just giant ball-shaped fusion reactors. But whatever, even if they are "gods" now (whatever that means, since they are still bound by the laws of physics) with almost limitless power who just don't care about humanity, why would they not help humanity. If it's the same to them if we die or live, then there's no reason to not save us. It wouldn't cost them anything at all. They bother with answering our questions and bother with picking up Kaliban. By the same token they might as well just solve all our problems in the blink of an eye.
Also, they say they don't owe us anything, because gods don't owe anyone anything, which is just lazy dialogue really. They exist because of us. Can't deny that. The problem is not that there's no argument to be made against that (like most parents wouldn't say their child owes them their life), it's just that the OMNIs chose to go with the worst argument possible, which again doesn't speak to their intelligence.

5) Idaho's final choices make no sense
The set of choices we're given make no sense at all and are artificially made to make you feel ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Letting humanity die while awaiting the end with your wife? Why would you even consider that? Letting trillions of humans die while searching for one planet that you don't even know where it might be? Why would you even consider that?² The only real option is becoming the new emperor and trying to fix the chaos. And honestly, it shouldn't even be that hard. As I said, just build solar panels dude. GG ez. But no, the game pretends like this would be a fascist empire with a hated leader. Why? Why would the people not love you for rebuilding society? Why would you not learn from Oberon's mistakes and make it a free society? I hate it when books or movies try way to hard to make you feel bad. It doesn't work. Because unless you give the reader good reasons why things have to be ♥♥♥♥♥♥, that type of ending loses all weight because it's not deserved.

[Shatterstep]

I strongly agree. I loved the game, but the plot was ♥♥♥♥. Felt like they could have had something unique, interesting, and memorable, but alas...

[Cubey]

Agreed. The ending feels like it's written by someone who thinks a bad ending is automatically deep and profound and anything more optimistic is naive and sucks, even if it actually makes more sense.

Also the real identity of the person who activated the master node was such an anticlimax. The whole game you follow this plot thread and then it turns out it was some random facechanger without any earlier foreshadowing. It's like if you read a murder mystery novel then on the last page it turned out that all the suspects are innocent and the murderer was actually a totally different character who didn't even appear in the novel before.

Crying Suns' core gameplay is good but the ending stretch frankly ruined the story for me.

[Shatterstep]

I suspect that the name of the protagonist, Idaho, is a reference to Duncan Idaho from the book Dune. In the dune series Idaho keeps being brought back to life (my memory is really, really fuzzy).

Another similarity from the dune series is Leto Atradies having to sacrifice himself if he wants humankind to survive. He reigned as emperor for thousands of years and slowly gets turned into a great sand worm. Weird stuff, but good books for the most part.

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Cubey:

Also the real identity of the person who activated the master node was such an anticlimax. The whole game you follow this plot thread and then it turns out it was some random facechanger without any earlier foreshadowing. It's like if you read a murder mystery novel then on the last page it turned out that all the suspects are innocent and the murderer was actually a totally different character who didn't even appear in the novel before.

Exactly that. That also ruined the story for me. What was the writer thinking? Were they rushed?

[Menkerot]

Originally posted by Shatterstep:

I suspect that the name of the protagonist, Idaho, is a reference to Duncan Idaho from the book Dune. In the dune series Idaho keeps being brought back to life (my memory is really, really fuzzy).

Another similarity from the dune series is Leto Atradies having to sacrifice himself if he wants humankind to survive. He reigned as emperor for thousands of years and slowly gets turned into a great sand worm. Weird stuff, but good books for the most part.

exactly. Idaho was the best warrior ever and I think Tleilaksu kept cloning him so that he could continue serving the house. As for the emperor, son of Paul (grandson of Leto then) was truly a god emperor and turned into a worm. Really fun.

[LagTheKiller]

While I can agree on implementation of some of the story elements I disagree on the story itself. I find it deep, grim and engaging. Since OMNIs were central units for all planetary infrastructure it stands to reason that those wordls will now crumble and lose 95% of population, and in case of some colonies overreliant on terraformation: wiped out.

I sorta disagree on Humanity total wipeout. Because we can no longer use computers and space travel? It seems like the long Night done bad, but its nonetheless great short story.

If somone tried to write series of novellas / greater fictional universe then yeah, this will not stand. For a compressed plotline for a single rogue like game i think it feels absolutely sufficient to provide a bit of artificial grimdark to create sense of despair.

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by LagTheKiller:

While I can agree on implementation of some of the story elements I disagree on the story itself. I find it deep, grim and engaging. Since OMNIs were central units for all planetary infrastructure it stands to reason that those wordls will now crumble and lose 95% of population, and in case of some colonies overreliant on terraformation: wiped out.

I sorta disagree on Humanity total wipeout. Because we can no longer use computers and space travel? It seems like the long Night done bad, but its nonetheless great short story.

If somone tried to write series of novellas / greater fictional universe then yeah, this will not stand. For a compressed plotline for a single rogue like game i think it feels absolutely sufficient to provide a bit of artificial grimdark to create sense of despair.

The problem is we don't ever see the complete reliance of humanity on machines. As I said, what we see instead is people working factories, managing entire space ships and basically everything we come to expect in a typical sci-fi setting. Where are the 95% wipe out planets? I haven't really seen any. I've just been told that they exist by the dialogue, with no evidence.

[Kae717]

Originally posted by LagTheKiller:

While I can agree on implementation of some of the story elements I disagree on the story itself. I find it deep, grim and engaging. Since OMNIs were central units for all planetary infrastructure it stands to reason that those wordls will now crumble and lose 95% of population, and in case of some colonies overreliant on terraformation: wiped out.

I sorta disagree on Humanity total wipeout. Because we can no longer use computers and space travel? It seems like the long Night done bad, but its nonetheless great short story.

If somone tried to write series of novellas / greater fictional universe then yeah, this will not stand. For a compressed plotline for a single rogue like game i think it feels absolutely sufficient to provide a bit of artificial grimdark to create sense of despair.

i thought the story was fine... it had depth and detail plus is written in French and translated as the Devs are French so maybe give them some leeway... works perfectly OK for the game...

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Kae717:

i thought the story was fine... it had depth and detail plus is written in French and translated as the Devs are French so maybe give them some leeway... works perfectly OK for the game...

The detail of the story is not the problem. The fact that it feels unearned is. Also that it doesn't make any sense for the other reasons I mentioned in the beginning.

[Kae717]

Originally posted by Yaddah:

Originally posted by Kae717:

i thought the story was fine... it had depth and detail plus is written in French and translated as the Devs are French so maybe give them some leeway... works perfectly OK for the game...

The detail of the story is not the problem. The fact that it feels unearned is. Also that it doesn't make any sense for the other reasons I mentioned in the beginning.

how many hours have you logged with Crying Suns?

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Kae717:

Originally posted by Yaddah:

The detail of the story is not the problem. The fact that it feels unearned is. Also that it doesn't make any sense for the other reasons I mentioned in the beginning.

how many hours have you logged with Crying Suns?

Steam says 38. But that seems low, because I know I played the game intensely for at least a week.
Why does that matter though?

[Kae717]

i just wondered if you played it alot or just now and then

[Jack]

This seems like more of a review than a conversation.
Not a bad review, I'm just not really sure what the point of the Discussion thread is?

To find out who agrees/disagrees?
Wanting somebody to change your mind?

Media, both visual and audio, are a form of art.
Art is subjective.

I disagree with your statement about the story, as the journey was more important than the destination.
The path was what made the trip worth it, to me.

[Yaddah]

Originally posted by Jack:

This seems like more of a review than a conversation.
Not a bad review, I'm just not really sure what the point of the Discussion thread is?

I simply shared my opinion. It's a message to the devs and also other players can see if they agree.
The game itself is fun. But this statement is almost purely about the story and it's a bad story.

[Kae717]

you can have an opinion and want to share it... i see no problem with that... but when people disagree with you you gotta just accept not everyone gets the same enjoyment from every game... games are like art... theyre subjective and i play Crying Suns probably every day and i really have enjoyed doing hundreds of runs in the game... again you wont agree with me but thats also fine...