Are mods with super tactics cheating?

[SwedenJens]

I am fairly New to the game and so far I love it. Its really challenging to play lower league teams and rewarding when you perform good against better teams. I want it to stay that way.

But something that worries me is when I see mods in the workshop with super strategies and read how people say they can beat every team with low leauge teams using the mod tactics. If I can just download a mod Apply the tactic and win every game with whatever team id call it a game breaking bug. Why even bother with any other tactic once youve learned the allmighty one?

[Fiddle Gastro]

Yes, they're exploiting the match engine.

Most common example: Fisherman's Friend with far post crosses.

It sets off a cycle of exceeding expectation, not having reputation adjusted accordingly, then rocketing up the leagues as a result of the opposition's never-ceasing complacency.

Add in the 'praise conduct' exploit and you've got baby's first management game.

[Ratio decidendi]

This is mostly a single player game, you can play which ever way you want and it hardly matters what other people do. Knowing the existence of a game-breaking tactics or bug (or whichever way you want to categorise it as) doesn't necessarily compel you to use it. Whether it gets patched or not, you are still free to use your own tactics and continue to enjoy the game the way you have.

[SwedenJens]

Cant that be easily fixed by devs by just implementing realism that if you have the superier tactics and aleays win all other teams Will also use it? Which would actually happen irl.

[Fiddle Gastro]

The AI only periodically adjusts their tactics to suit yours, and only if your reputation is high enough.

SI then maintain the veneer of difficulty by never explaining exactly what their values actually do, brainwashing the fanboys with false logic based around 'well it happened once'.

Those fanboys will fill forums with 'explanations' as to what's happening under the hood, leaving questions unanswered for years on end.

Case in point: A moderator will close any negative feedback type threads within minutes, but a general question requiring specificity will be flatly ignored.

[Shai-Hulud]

Honestly when I first got on this forum, I couldn't stand the 'fabulous' guy and had to block him.

But I gotta say, this anti SI crusader is somehow even more unbearable.

[[deleted]]

SwedenJens lähetti viestin:

I am fairly New to the game and so far I love it. Its really challenging to play lower league teams and rewarding when you perform good against better teams. I want it to stay that way.

But something that worries me is when I see mods in the workshop with super strategies and read how people say they can beat every team with low leauge teams using the mod tactics. If I can just download a mod Apply the tactic and win every game with whatever team id call it a game breaking bug. Why even bother with any other tactic once youve learned the allmighty one?

Whole leaderboard system is ruined because of this tactics.

[Fiddle Gastro]

Diego lähetti viestin:

SwedenJens lähetti viestin:

I am fairly New to the game and so far I love it. Its really challenging to play lower league teams and rewarding when you perform good against better teams. I want it to stay that way.

But something that worries me is when I see mods in the workshop with super strategies and read how people say they can beat every team with low leauge teams using the mod tactics. If I can just download a mod Apply the tactic and win every game with whatever team id call it a game breaking bug. Why even bother with any other tactic once youve learned the allmighty one?

Whole leaderboard system is ruined because of this tactics.

'Boo hoo, even when I exploit the game as far as I can, I still can't get on top of the leaderboards, waaaaah'

[Batang_Batibot]

I use a downloaded tactics sometimes, and guess what. It's not game breaking, yes you'll win a lot, but along the years. AI adopts and will counter your tactic. In my Real Madrid save, I only manage to win one UCL in 5 years, and I'm dominating La Liga with the said tactic. Went a single invincible season, loosing only to a relegated club.

[fourfourtwo79]

You can only cheat yourself. If you're playing me in multiplayer tho, gtf off my lawn. :D

Btw, actual exploits aren't that much about any complacency, or reputation. They're about exploiting second to second visibly defensive flaws inherent to the engine -- which the AI also can't spot and adapt to some if possible. Centre backs parting like the sea and leaving acres of space for an onpushing AMC (the legendary "Diablo"). Overloading the centre of the pitch with players on releass where wide midfielders always stick out wide on defending, and never to rarely help to cover central spaces (FM 17).

Corner routines to players barely ever marked. Teams not punished properly for having three forwards always crashed against the opposition backline due to their inevitably lighter midfield not being pressed properly -- same as those three players always hanging forward even on defending being very easy outlets for counter attacks (the three fishermen). The result is always players gifted acress of space, and thus player quality playing little of a role. If even the poorest players pop up barely marked in front of the goal over and over, guess what's gonna happen..

Most of the time, the advantage is measuarable. In the team reports, it is oft displayed as a shot to goal conversion advantage totally out of reach for the AI over the season (let alone any team in real football). On prior releases, teams could convert 20%+ of their seasonal shots consistently with an exploit. Sometimes, this doesn't look that BIG of an advantage. However, any added corner goal can be the sole difference between a point drop and a HUGE trashing, in particular as the AI managers react to scorelines, and may stop "parking the bus" upon finally conceding (e.g. OMG, 30 shots no goal GAME MUST BE BROKEN lol vs. 5-0 I AM FM MASTERCLASS).

Despite the "unrealism", for some "odd" reason, this is never reported as a bug to investigate. ;) Oh, and the AI never adapts, ever. The game isn't coded for the tactically "hardcore" at all. It simply plays more defensive or more expansive football depending on the side it meets (it's an "underdog" vs "favorite" consideration to simplify), which happens against other AI also. However, AI managers also change jobs frequently. If you're "unlucky", you could face a wave of AI in the future that manages to "fix" exploits to an extent -- it speaks to reason that AI prefering narrow and deep formations may be better able to defend central spaces some, etc.

[Fiddle Gastro]

fourfourtwo79 lähetti viestin:

You can only cheat yourself. If you're playing me in multiplayer tho, gtf off my lawn. :D

Btw, actual exploits aren't that much about any complacency, or reputation. They're about exploiting second to second visibly defensive flaws inherent to the engine -- which the AI also can't spot and adapt to some if possible. Centre backs parting like the sea and leaving acres of space for an onpushing AMC (the legendary "Diablo"). Overloading the centre of the pitch with players on releass where wide midfielders always stick out wide on defending, and never to rarely help to cover central spaces (FM 17).

Corner routines to players barely ever marked. Teams not punished properly for having three forwards always crashed against the opposition backline due to their inevitably lighter midfield not being pressed properly -- same as those three players always hanging forward even on defending being very easy outlets for counter attacks (the three fishermen). The result is always players gifted acress of space, and thus player quality playing little of a role. If even the poorest players pop up barely marked in front of the goal over and over, guess what's gonna happen..

Most of the time, the advantage is measuarable. In the team reports, it is oft displayed as a shot to goal conversion advantage totally out of reach for the AI over the season (let alone any team in real football). On prior releases, teams could convert 20%+ of their seasonal shots consistently with an exploit. Sometimes, this doesn't look that BIG of an advantage. However, any added corner goal can be the sole difference between a point drop and a HUGE trashing, in particular as the AI managers react to scorelines, and may stop "parking the bus" upon finally conceding (e.g. OMG, 30 shots no goal GAME MUST BE BROKEN lol vs. 5-0 I AM FM MASTERCLASS).

Despite the "unrealism", for some "odd" reason, this is never reported as a bug to investigate. ;) Oh, and the AI never adapts, ever. The game isn't coded for the tactically "hardcore" at all. It simply plays more defensive or more expansive football depending on the side it meets (it's an "underdog" vs "favorite" consideration to simplify), which happens against other AI also. However, AI managers also change jobs frequently. If you're "unlucky", you could face a wave of AI in the future that manages to "fix" exploits to an extent -- it speaks to reason that AI prefering narrow and deep formations may be better able to defend central spaces some, etc.

Yep, numerous exploitable scenarios in this version.

1) Crosses to far post. FBs don't mark players out wide and don't react to crosses inevitably coming in.

2) AML/R don't mark WBs all the way to the byline (even when marking the specific player) unless the WB gets possession and dribbles. Makes WBs ridiculously overpowered.

3) Defenders don't react to long balls, thus forwards get a clean run through more often than not because the CB doesn't even turn around when the ball has gone over their head. Combined WBs with 'play into space' and 'early crosses' to far post, gets even more ridiculous.

4) Defenders closing down all move to directly in front of the player in possession. They do not remain circled around the player ready to tackle when able or block angled passes. In highly compressed defensive systems, you can often see 4 mids/defenders all glitching through eachother to occupy that space if the player maintains possession long enough.


SI would be aware of this if they actually tested the game on a tactical level instead of trying to explain everything away with stats and real life scenarios outside the norm.

[[deleted]]

Noidenous lähetti viestin:

fourfourtwo79 lähetti viestin:

You can only cheat yourself. If you're playing me in multiplayer tho, gtf off my lawn. :D

Btw, actual exploits aren't that much about any complacency, or reputation. They're about exploiting second to second visibly defensive flaws inherent to the engine -- which the AI also can't spot and adapt to some if possible. Centre backs parting like the sea and leaving acres of space for an onpushing AMC (the legendary "Diablo"). Overloading the centre of the pitch with players on releass where wide midfielders always stick out wide on defending, and never to rarely help to cover central spaces (FM 17).

Corner routines to players barely ever marked. Teams not punished properly for having three forwards always crashed against the opposition backline due to their inevitably lighter midfield not being pressed properly -- same as those three players always hanging forward even on defending being very easy outlets for counter attacks (the three fishermen). The result is always players gifted acress of space, and thus player quality playing little of a role. If even the poorest players pop up barely marked in front of the goal over and over, guess what's gonna happen..

Most of the time, the advantage is measuarable. In the team reports, it is oft displayed as a shot to goal conversion advantage totally out of reach for the AI over the season (let alone any team in real football). On prior releases, teams could convert 20%+ of their seasonal shots consistently with an exploit. Sometimes, this doesn't look that BIG of an advantage. However, any added corner goal can be the sole difference between a point drop and a HUGE trashing, in particular as the AI managers react to scorelines, and may stop "parking the bus" upon finally conceding (e.g. OMG, 30 shots no goal GAME MUST BE BROKEN lol vs. 5-0 I AM FM MASTERCLASS).

Despite the "unrealism", for some "odd" reason, this is never reported as a bug to investigate. ;) Oh, and the AI never adapts, ever. The game isn't coded for the tactically "hardcore" at all. It simply plays more defensive or more expansive football depending on the side it meets (it's an "underdog" vs "favorite" consideration to simplify), which happens against other AI also. However, AI managers also change jobs frequently. If you're "unlucky", you could face a wave of AI in the future that manages to "fix" exploits to an extent -- it speaks to reason that AI prefering narrow and deep formations may be better able to defend central spaces some, etc.

Yep, numerous exploitable scenarios in this version.

1) Crosses to far post. FBs don't mark players out wide and don't react to crosses inevitably coming in.

2) AML/R don't mark WBs all the way to the byline (even when marking the specific player) unless the WB gets possession and dribbles. Makes WBs ridiculously overpowered.

3) Defenders don't react to long balls, thus forwards get a clean run through more often than not because the CB doesn't even turn around when the ball has gone over their head. Combined WBs with 'play into space' and 'early crosses' to far post, gets even more ridiculous.

4) Defenders closing down all move to directly in front of the player in possession. They do not remain circled around the player ready to tackle when able or block angled passes. In highly compressed defensive systems, you can often see 4 mids/defenders all glitching through eachother to occupy that space if the player maintains possession long enough.


SI would be aware of this if they actually tested the game on a tactical level instead of trying to explain everything away with stats and real life scenarios outside the norm.

But you tested the game so we all know how this game works lol