WHY NO GOALS FROM CORNERS IN FM15, FM16, FM17, FM18, FM19?

[step34in]

I have been watching highlights or entire games of English Premiership, English Football League and Polish Ekstraklasa through cable/satellite TV and I took particular notice of the large amount of goals from corners. Heading after the corner is the most common and occurs in almost every football match sometimes even twice in one match. Apart from the penalty kick it is probably the easiest way to score the goal in football.
Why is that not happening in Football Manager game over the last several editions?
I have been writing about it for last few years and it has never changed. Only opposition teams are scoring goals from corners but definitely NOT YOUR TEAM. I have been trying all corner tactics possible, sometimes putting 6 tall players with good heading abilities and it is all big waste of time. Some players just hanging around 16m line not even attacking the ball despite ball is supposed to be going into 6 yard box... In the very beginning of the season I had only 1 header from the corner and later on, some clumsy kick goal after corner and that's it... No more for the rest of the season. Another season is the same and another is the same, and another edition is the same the same FM15, FM16, FM17, FM18, FM19... keep counting. 2 goals from corners per season is definitely not good enough.
You can put head into the sand and say "we think we got it right' or 'your players are not trained enough' but the truth is that this is MAJOR stuff up in Football Manager Game.
There are also no powerful headers from outside the 6 yard box, only weak, miserable ones.
Come on mates, please acknowledge that we need massive update on this one and just do it ASAP.

Regards

Karl
Sydney Australia

Korona manager
(ex Podbeskidzie and Tranmere Rovers manager)

[step34in]

fourfourtwo79 původně napsal:

As an ado, whilst typing the above, I did another simulation. This time I applied to Lech, who have probablyl the best, or one of the best corner takers in the league in Mihai Radut (Corners: 15, Crossing: 12, Technique 14). They also have Thomas Rogne, a centre back with jumping reach as high as 17 and high ratings for balance and strength to boot. Did the same thing, applying and holidaying. After 17 matches, 5 goals from corners. Whilst I argued about randomness over indidivual runs, I don't think that was coincidence.

It either way flies in the face of the claim that you couldn't ever score from corners. You cannot ever go from anecdote, which he did with his A-league match visited more recent likewise. There may have ben a corner goal in there. What he doesn't say is that in the A League, even the best corner team from last season, Melbourne, scored 6 goals in the entire season.

6 that would be a lot in my case, I would be happy with that!

[step34in]

fourfourtwo79 původně napsal:

As an ado, whilst typing the above, I did another simulation. This time I applied to Lech, who have probablyl the best, or one of the best corner takers in the league in Mihai Radut (Corners: 15, Crossing: 12, Technique 14). They also have Thomas Rogne, a centre back with jumping reach as high as 17 and high ratings for balance and strength to boot. Did the same thing, applying and holidaying. After 17 matches, 5 goals from corners. Whilst I argued about randomness over indidivual runs, I don't think that was coincidence.

It either way flies in the face of the claim that you couldn't ever score from corners. You cannot ever go from anecdote, which he did with his A-league match visited more recent likewise. There may have ben a corner goal in there. What he doesn't say is that in the A League, even the best corner team from last season, Melbourne, scored 6 goals in the entire season.

yes I do the same, best corner takers, tallest players, good heading ability, jumping reach etc

[fourfourtwo79]

Well the above obviously provides the solution: Switch to Dutch language. :D

step34in původně napsal:

yes I do the same, best corner takers, tallest players, good heading ability, jumping reach etc

According to yourself, you do not. You apply custom corner routines. That's the best bet you have now. Reporting those custom corner routines as possible bugs. The default routines with the right side (Lech) are good enough to score 5 goals from 17 matches, as simulated. However, even with a top taker such as theirs, that likely required luck. After all, the real world averages should be 1 corner goal in roughly every 15th match. Indeed, in my first sim with Korona, when Lech were managed by the AI, they scored "but" 1 in half a season. Just the same as us.

Over any individual season, randomness is the name of the game due to so few corner goals scored. (Which is also the reason why on any real world list quoting "Europe's Deadlist Free Kick Takers", you'll always see guys who would never appear there again in the following season -- it oft takes but 2-3 free kick goals to make that list.... and I'd argue any footballer can kick a ball decently enough that it may challenge a keeper some. Thus luck to make it at the top of such a list once doesn't repeat, superior skill, however, may). Over the longer term, over many sims, Lech should score more goals than the average. Hopefully anyways. :D

If corners would lead *much more* regularly to a goal in general, then the game would stop being a football simulation. In particular sides sitting deep would suffer, as they concede a lot more corners by default. I personally like to sit deep myself. There's attacking, and there's also defending. Even though players oft wish their forward were able to score a 100 goals per season...

[step34in]

I like statistics you provided in graphs. In real life generally takes to score goal from corners in every 4 to even 19 matches at the highest. So all in between is the average, let me say 8 would be mid average. Teams getting around 6 corners per match. As we know some teams playing specifically for set pieces to bring that number up to increase chances. Teams from lower divisions have players with less abilities but that does not mean that they score less goals from corners. Set pieces are being scored on regular basis at every level.

[fourfourtwo79]

The article argues the *average* is 1 corner goal in 15 matches for a side, which seems low, tbh.

15.4 matches to wait for a goal from corner (for a single team to score)

The article doesn't do a run-down on each team specifically, it simply looks at some that stood out for some reason or other. There's obviously lower ones than the 1 in 34 Dortmund 2016 cited, as there are sides that don't score at all from the corner in a 38 match season, such as Nottingham Fores in 2018. Conversion rates in general long-term are pretty consistent across levels, typically. As you say, whilst attackers tend to be less skilful, so are defenders.

And yes, some managers specifically prepare to score from the corner. It appears some are more successful than others at it though. https://strikerless.com/2018/11/05/corner-kicks-in-fm19/

[snickii]

i make so many goals from corner... i would say in 2 matches min 1 goal

[step34in]

snickii ⭐ původně napsal:

i make so many goals from corner... i would say in 2 matches min 1 goal

in default or you are customising it?

[step34in]

Heard on radio 3 days ago that Glasgow University agrees with Alan Shearer's study about dementia. Hopefully modern day balls are not that heavy and not causing much damage like in early days...

[step34in]

fourfourtwo79 původně napsal:

The article argues the *average* is 1 corner goal in 15 matches for a side, which seems low, tbh.

15.4 matches to wait for a goal from corner (for a single team to score)

The article doesn't do a run-down on each team specifically, it simply looks at some that stood out for some reason or other. There's obviously lower ones than the 1 in 34 Dortmund 2016 cited, as there are sides that don't score at all from the corner in a 38 match season, such as Nottingham Fores in 2018. Conversion rates in general long-term are pretty consistent across levels, typically. As you say, whilst attackers tend to be less skilful, so are defenders.

And yes, some managers specifically prepare to score from the corner. It appears some are more successful than others at it though. https://strikerless.com/2018/11/05/corner-kicks-in-fm19/

'Conversion rates in general long term are pretty consistent across levels' - that is the whole point my friend! Conversion rates SHOULD be pretty consistent across levels but is not.
Guys above managing big teams like Ajax, Liverpool or some Bundesliga clubs getting lots of corner goals because their players got better technical abilities. Even your simulation with Lech (one of the top Ekstraklasa clubs) provided you with more corner goals.
Game system does not recognise that players with less technical abilities in lower divisions score as many set pieces goals as in higher divisions!
I raised lack of goals from set pieces issue when I was managing Tranmere Rovers. Response of one of the trolls was: 'why are you managing ♥♥♥♥ team like Tranmere?'
They simply do not understand the problem and getting frustrated. Conversion MUST be consistent across levels regardless of the division, professional or part time.
Not everybody wants to manage fat arse clubs like Ajax or Liverpool or Bayern Munich.

[HUNT3R]

SI balance goals scored, types of goals, passes etc across all levels, not just top.

[step34in]

HUNT3R původně napsal:

SI balance goals scored, types of goals, passes etc across all levels, not just top.

I hope so, I would like to believe you.

[fourfourtwo79]

I had picked Lech not because they were a top club. But because they probably had the best corner taker in the league (and a couple beefy CBs to boot, at least one of which with physical stats that were clearly *big time* above the league averages, which you don't see often at top levels -- actually, this is oft easier to get at lower levels). WHen I did the simulations with Koronoa, it was apparent that at the start anyway that they didn't have a particularly good corner taker for their level to begin with. In fact, almost any team in the league seemed to have a better kicker.

However, it may influence. As one of the top teams at the start, Lech go into most matches as favorite, so will face AI going more defensive often. That means that most of the play is in the opposition half, which means that Lech should get more corners.

If players would score a corner goal every 2nd match with the default routines, I'd personally be hugely worried. :D

[step34in]

fourfourtwo79 původně napsal:

I had picked Lech not because they were a top club. But because they probably had the best corner taker in the league (and a couple beefy CBs to boot, at least one of which with physical stats that were clearly *big time* above the league averages, which you don't see often at top levels -- actually, this is oft easier to get at lower levels). WHen I did the simulations with Koronoa, it was apparent that at the start anyway that they didn't have a particularly good corner taker for their level to begin with. In fact, almost any team in the league seemed to have a better kicker.

However, it may influence. As one of the top teams at the start, Lech go into most matches as favorite, so will face AI going more defensive often. That means that most of the play is in the opposition half, which means that Lech should get more corners.

If players would score a corner goal every 2nd match with the default routines, I'd personally be hugely worried. :D

yes, it must be some balance and must as realistic as possible