Snowballing economy

[cifrelettere]

Anyone else feel that the economy snowballs to insane amounts past the early game? Everyone is swimming in gold and supplies and it kinda sucks that it trivializes the economic warfare aspects of the game. A couple (4) years in and cities have tens of thousands of gold and hundreds of thousands of supplies.

[XYZEXPIRED]

I see enemy have tons of gold and supplies, but I do see they transport them from their inner city to the outskirt. I haven't figure out what KOEI tactic on cutting off supplies though, the grid system is really long to play around .

[Caprontos]

This is always an issue with ROTK games.Because every city has to be self-sufficient, they set the economy so even a single city faction can exist.. Which means all your cities are self-sufficient. The thing that varies is more, how many officers do you need to make the city self-sufficient (and so your expansion is limited by having enough officers to control more stuff more so then having enough stuff to expand).

The economy in general could use some balancing though. but it'd be hard to fix the snowballing really.. Bigger faction = more cities that only need to supply the frontline cities.

I think ROTK 13 was worse though. You can actually run out of supplies if you ignore it.

[cifrelettere]

I don't mind if bigger factions can move supplies and cash to the front lines. The issue is that even single city factions are hoarding tens of thousands of gold and supplies.

[keriv136]

I am not seeing that at all. First, each city is limited in how much supplies it can have. The maximum is 400k with a massive city. Supplies also seem to go real fast and I am constantly having to buy supplies, especially if you fight a lot. I use a lot of gold buying supplies and doing other things. Even a hundred thousand gold isn't much honestly.

[cifrelettere]

Originally posted by keriv136:

I am not seeing that at all. First, each city is limited in how much supplies it can have. The maximum is 400k with a massive city. Supplies also seem to go real fast and I am constantly having to buy supplies, especially if you fight a lot. I use a lot of gold buying supplies and doing other things. Even a hundred thousand gold isn't much honestly.

Hmmm...what game are you playing? Hundreds of thousands of gold equates to millions of supplies. There's no real way to run out...

[keriv136]

Originally posted by roachymel:

Originally posted by keriv136:

I am not seeing that at all. First, each city is limited in how much supplies it can have. The maximum is 400k with a massive city. Supplies also seem to go real fast and I am constantly having to buy supplies, especially if you fight a lot. I use a lot of gold buying supplies and doing other things. Even a hundred thousand gold isn't much honestly.

Hmmm...what game are you playing? Hundreds of thousands of gold equates to millions of supplies. There's no real way to run out...

No it doesn't, every time I buy supplies (15 to 20k in supplies) it costs a few thousand gold coins. A city can only hold so much and supplies run out fast. Most cities tend to be around medium or large with a few more well developed being massive. Even a massive city can only hold 400k supplies maximum. Having a 100k soldiers sitting there drains supplies and then if you fight supplies go down pretty fast.

[cifrelettere]

'Pretty fast'? I can have tens of thousands of troops out at a time for months or years on end. I earn more gold and can buy more supplies than I can possibly ever use. That's the issue.

[Virsia]

if you have division ai will send supplies or gold to your city if they feel they have excess and feel you still lacking, ai also have bonus to their income to balance as they are being dumb moving their troops like being cut off paying ransom etc, easy ai will have roughly same income as player, normal have higher pay while hard will be like 50 percent or double income

[cifrelettere]

Originally posted by Virsia:

if you have division ai will send supplies or gold to your city if they feel they have excess and feel you still lacking, ai also have bonus to their income to balance as they are being dumb moving their troops like being cut off paying ransom etc, easy ai will have roughly same income as player, normal have higher pay while hard will be like 50 percent or double income

Does it even matter? Even as a player I have 5x or more income than I can ever spend after the first year or two.

[Virsia]

it is matter because it is also doubling troops recruitment for ai, they repair city faster and have more points recovered for administration level.
the only way you have shortage is when your city hit by locus since every city basically can feed their own need.

[keriv136]

Originally posted by roachymel:

'Pretty fast'? I can have tens of thousands of troops out at a time for months or years on end. I earn more gold and can buy more supplies than I can possibly ever use. That's the issue.

How do you have so much gold that you can buy endless supplies? Are you basically cheating the system by buying rice cheap and then selling it high and then rinse repeat? If so, don't do it even though it is an aspect of the game (since you are complaining). I have a lot of gold but not so much that it could endlessly supply my armies and I control about 50% of china or more.

[cifrelettere]

Originally posted by keriv136:

Originally posted by roachymel:

'Pretty fast'? I can have tens of thousands of troops out at a time for months or years on end. I earn more gold and can buy more supplies than I can possibly ever use. That's the issue.

How do you have so much gold that you can buy endless supplies? Are you basically cheating the system by buying rice cheap and then selling it high and then rinse repeat? If so, don't do it even though it is an aspect of the game (since you are complaining). I have a lot of gold but not so much that it could endlessly supply my armies and I control about 50% of china or more.

Because my cities produce endless gold (normal difficulty). I'm not doing anything special. Once you get a few medium or large cities you end up producing so much gold that whenever a merchant arrives you can just buy supplies with a few officers and get tens of thousands of supplies (or even hundreds of thousands if you want).

Gold and supply balance is way off. Gold is too plentiful and the exchange rate between gold and supplies should be 1:1, not this 1:4+ that it is now.

[keriv136]

Originally posted by roachymel:

Originally posted by keriv136:

How do you have so much gold that you can buy endless supplies? Are you basically cheating the system by buying rice cheap and then selling it high and then rinse repeat? If so, don't do it even though it is an aspect of the game (since you are complaining). I have a lot of gold but not so much that it could endlessly supply my armies and I control about 50% of china or more.

Because my cities produce endless gold (normal difficulty). I'm not doing anything special. Once you get a few medium or large cities you end up producing so much gold that whenever a merchant arrives you can just buy supplies with a few officers and get tens of thousands of supplies (or even hundreds of thousands if you want).

Gold and supply balance is way off. Gold is too plentiful and the exchange rate between gold and supplies should be 1:1, not this 1:4+ that it is now.

Do you think you are the only person who knows how to play the game? I have tons of large and massive cities, with also many medium and I also focused mostly on gold. Yet, I am still running out of food constantly (and gold to some extent) and have to consistently transport food and gold to the front lines. Sorry, but everything you say is BS to me as I am not experiencing it at all in my game of which I have conquered more than 50% of china at this point and am ever expanding. Attacking 4 cities right this very moment and now moving food around so that I can keep the momentum. If you are saying that food production needs to be increased, than I agree (or that the balance between gold and food needs to be balanced then I also agree). But your other arguments are not my experience at all.

[keriv136]

I think I see what you are trying to say, you are just saying that food should be more costly? But in my opinion, food production should be increased while also making it slightly more costly. I think food should not be 1:1 because when you are still small (With 1 or 2 cities) you might need to buy food more often. Unless of course food production is increased enough. I don't see it as much of a game breaking thing as you, but some improvements are warranted.

[cifrelettere]

Originally posted by keriv136:

Originally posted by roachymel:

Because my cities produce endless gold (normal difficulty). I'm not doing anything special. Once you get a few medium or large cities you end up producing so much gold that whenever a merchant arrives you can just buy supplies with a few officers and get tens of thousands of supplies (or even hundreds of thousands if you want).

Gold and supply balance is way off. Gold is too plentiful and the exchange rate between gold and supplies should be 1:1, not this 1:4+ that it is now.

Do you think you are the only person who knows how to play the game? I have tons of large and massive cities, with also many medium and I also focused mostly on gold. Yet, I am still running out of food constantly (and gold to some extent) and have to consistently transport food and gold to the front lines. Sorry, but everything you say is BS to me as I am not experiencing it at all in my game of which I have conquered more than 50% of china at this point and am ever expanding. Attacking 4 cities right this very moment and now moving food around so that I can keep the momentum. If you are saying that food production needs to be increased, than I agree (or that the balance between gold and food needs to be balanced then I also agree). But your other arguments are not my experience at all.

No, I don't think I'm the only one who knows how to play the game. I know at least the AI I'm fighting knows how as well since their economies are similar to mine.

For those saying gold and the economy doesn't snowball out of control, how do you explain this economy?

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/792009913404123455/70EFC2E740EFD0E7194524AD8F961D28D8F4F7EA/

I have cities where my income is over 4x my expenditure. Every individual city makes at least what its expenditure is, and my total income is ~3x my total expenditure. I spam nearly every suggestion every turn because why not? Gold is meaningless since I have infinite amounts. There is no real way I can spend enough gold to ever run out.

Originally posted by keriv136:

I think I see what you are trying to say, you are just saying that food should be more costly? But in my opinion, food production should be increased while also making it slightly more costly. I think food should not be 1:1 because when you are still small (With 1 or 2 cities) you might need to buy food more often. Unless of course food production is increased enough. I don't see it as much of a game breaking thing as you, but some improvements are warranted.

Food and gold need to be 1:1 or else there's no real reason to ever develop agriculture since commerce develop is essentially at least 4x (and on average 6x) more fruitful than agriculture and they're completely fungible via merchants (i.e. freely interchangeable and exchangeable). But gold gain needs to be nerfed to solve the issue rather than supplies/agriculture being buffed because otherwise supplies will snowball out of control just like how gold is nearly limitless.

Wars and campaigns should have a cost associated with them. Right now they only have a real cost in the first year or two until cities become a bit more developed and then gold gain spirals out of control. (And the only real reason you actually feel supplies and gold running out in the early game is because troop counts in cities start out very high while cities have zero development and so the balance is negative when you have those large troop counts on campaign).