MatPat's Final Timeline Criticism and review (In real time!)

[Doctor Script]

These are loose notes I took while watching the first part of the Final Time Line video. I just want to catalog what all is presented, claimed and argued and what problems we can see with this from a first initial glance.

I apologize in advance if the points are vague or unsupported; I'm just updating the discussion as I come into new points.

DISCLAIMER: I'm looking for MatPat to outright state something of importance regarding the Masks, due to my Phantom List Hypothesis. If I stop updating spontaneously, It likely means I got something I wasn't expecting and I'm doing side research to confirm or refute the results.

Thank you for reading!

---

-UCN/Smash Bros comparison. But he does claim the video is sponsored. Checked description in video for Sponsorship; Confirmed, NordVPN. I'm not familiar with their work, but I don't know the FCC laws well enough to know if this can bury leads in anyway. But just want to point it out.

-He calls out the trend of the Arc Number of 5, technically 6 but there is a seventh. He marks the pattern as 5 standard, 1 lore, and 1 challenge. I agree with this observation, and it reflects in my reading as well. 5 children, 1 puppet, and 1 Victim. I don't think this is the last game by Scott regarding this universe.

-Scott's not a mad genius, we can't solve this story if there aren't patterns he adheres too. Therefore, he adheres to patterns that can be solved backwards.

This is also an glamorized way to build up Scott's Authority, so when he makes a bold claim with no evidence but absurd detail coincidence he can build it up as being part of 'Scott's Master Plan all Along!". Next he probably going to clear himself to cherry pick info he wants to prove his points by claiming he using everything as a resource.

-AH, Mr. Hippo :D

- ... MatPat is acknowledging that there are two drafts of this story. I'm... cautious... He didn't outright state that Cawthon rewrote anything, but he acknowledge it. I don't understand why he would do that, unless he just padding out and giving himself a byline in the case he wants to address conflicting information.

-Never mind. He's still setting up Cawthon as a mad genius.

-Fox of Truth? you misread Faux.

- "A lot of Minute details from literally every element the series has ever released". I'm not even going to call that a Prediction. Of course he's going to cherry pick his fauxing data.

-Don't worry MatPat, My heart can take it. My desk may not.

-"And, of course, there are questions that don't have clean answers, which I will be calling out for you as I go". Well, at least he admits to begging the question. That's new... ish.

-Oh ♥♥♥♥, he's explaining his thought process, this next update may take a second.

-Rule number 1 is that he puts more emphasis on newer data.

Problems with this; it sounds reasonably, but the reason we don't have a rule of thumb or arguement for this is that you can't put emphasis on anything. You have to challenge a null for all perceived outcomes with the observations you make. IF the observations don't pan out a solid clear answer, or two answers are both valid, you can't land on one as true until you get more information.

So, hes using the recent data as more relevant, which gives him the ability to dismiss the previous data. No, you can't... No MatPat, Data is Data. There is no more recent.

The reason this sounds convincing is because he wants Scott to change his mind in his read. I can already tell that there will be a big reveal somewhere down the line that Scott is going back on his previous work, and it's going to magically not be a 'Retcon' for what ever reason he wants it to be.

-Whoa whoa whoa, this is completely contradictory to what he has already established;

IF Scott is a mad genius, who confirmed his theory back in FNAF1 (as stated in MatPat's more recent video), Pointing out the rewrite in between FNAF1 and FNAF2 is a contradiction to this mindset.

-AND wait a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ second, Since when is MatPat acknowledging the seam between FNAF1's writing and FNAF2? Rydi brow beat me to death and back over this existing or not. It's is NOT established or proven fact.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MatPat. Stop agreeing with me for the Wrong reasons and posting stupid conclusions over it.

-Rule Number 2 is Adhering to Key Dates and Events.

Welp... if you can argue that they are the dates or events and when they occur logically, I agree. Otherwise, this sounds like you are setting up assertions to give to your audience to brow beat dissenters into submission. I guess time will only tell...

-And he just rattled off that the spring lock suits were sealed at a sister location which happens to be FNAF4, which can't be the true if William Afton is the Killer. William Afton is Sealed away with those suits. Which means he can't be the one to kill the kids in FNAF2, as he is already sealed in 1987.

So much for adhering to dates and events.

-AND THEN HE LITERALLY TALKS ABOUT THE PROBLEM WITH THAT ASSERTION as evidence for his own Rule that he just established!

-Rule 3 is that this isn't a simple linear timeline.

If he talks about ring narratives, I'm going to flip a ♥♥♥♥♥♥' table.

-At ease, tables. He just has to go out of his way to point out that multiple events can occur at different locations. This is probably a rule, just to justify why his timeline is so heavily front loaded with FNAF4 at the beginning. Everything happens before FNAF2 even occurs, so there is a lot of overlap in the beginning.

-MatPat mocks the Scope of the game, that doesn't forebode well for me.

-He's arguing that the puppet is first in all of his games, And I imagine that he is going to recant that statement. I'm betting on Cassidy.

-Yep, he's setting up that someone else died first... Fredbear's wasn't owned by Fazbear's until Henry's Daughter died. They had previous owners. This is how I deducted that the CEO was the Purple Man since back in FNAF3, which has since been confirmed. The CEO was the only one to benefit from killing the puppet. MatPat can NOT logically deduct that anything that happens at a Fazbear Entertainment Location happens before the Puppet's death.

-Jesus, Jr's is NOT the FNAF2 Location. MatPat is the ONLY person that pushes this stupid and random assertion that does nothing for the lore as a whole.

-Getting a beer.

-Okay, so he goes through and explains that William is refused entrance into JR's and establishes that it must be Phone Guy says former employees aren't allowed entrance in the building. A Fair connection, but this does NOTHING to prove a point regarding WHEN FNaF2 opened, and WHEN William killed kids.

-Okay, so Circular reasoning time.

FNaF2 closed due to people being uncomfortable with going to a place where kids died. If so, this must make it the first event in the timeline.

No, not true, and the fact that William is PURPLE in other games and is ORANGE here is the problem. Purple establishes that he works for Fazbear Entertainment, he was fired for the death of Elizabeth between FNAF0 and FNAF2. Therefore, this proves that he is no longer employeed at Fazbears. He is an ex-employee.

The reason that Fazbear's couldn't stay open was that Afton couldn't spin the negative press. JR's may be a nod that he wasn't allowed at the store he helped create (Much like a child refusing the help of a parent as it gets older), but it isn't the FNaF2 location, so it's all irrelevant anyway.

This is a gargling of Non-sequiturs, Circular reasoning, and a host of assertions without sufficient evidence to support them.

-What nonsense is this? From the observation that FNAF2, which took place in 1987, closed due to poor sales (He even proves that it's not kids dying there specifically that causes it to close down. They close, and cite bad sales as the reason, so He doesn't even have his assertion to support him on this), he just... concludes that this had to be the first event. The other events had evidence supporting them being ahead of FNAF2.

...

Does this have something to do with the "Pre-recorded messages nonsense?"

-We can figure out the order of the murders due to ultimate custom night. Color me intrigued, MatPat, I'm betting this is going to provide an in game timeline like FNAF4's walk home did.

-Chica was first, no complaints here, she literally states that she was first and saw everything.

-You can't use the novels to prove the game's lore. Period. Teaspoon of sewage. I also refute that Susie is Chica, but that is beside the point.

-Toy Chica LIES in every cut scene to her culprit. "I Told him that someone ran over his dog in front of my house". The point is that what she is saying is NOT true.

-There is NO evidence of anyone's dead dog being used to lure a child away, if you have problems, let me know, I will refute that argument hard.

-My theory of the games involves the Puppet killing 5 kids, so that they will invite her to their birthday party. That's the super condensed version of it. The reason Cassidy isn't released in the end of UCN is because she doesn't invite the puppet to her party. I predicted this, on the basis that every character is locked in their mask, including Cassidy. Victim (From FNAF4) chooses to invite the puppet and wear the mask of Fredbear. In doing so, he releases everyone. There was only one character that wasn't present; Golden Freddy.

He was forced into the mask in FNAF4, but he chooses to wear it in Happiest Day, if it means everyone's souls are finally put to rest.

Therefore, I have to point out that MatPat is showing that the Puppet is presenting a cake to Cassidy, but not that Cassidy is accepting the cake.

-So, what the ♥♥♥♥ is it MatPat? Is "The One you should not have Killed" Golden Freddy or not? You stated that you were using evidence with more emphasis on later releases, but if Golden Freddy is Cassidy, and IS a little girl, then the consistent use of "Him" should be a clear indicator that you are wrong.

-He conflates the gender idiosyncrasy of his own theory he is presenting, with assertion he pulled out of his backside. Just because Scott said the character should not be readily determined as male or female, does not mean that MatPat has free reign to ignore the conflicted data.

I'm beginning to think MatPat won't signify when he knows there's something amiss in his theory...

-Okay, death coin talk time, some how tied into when Golden Freddy is possessed.

-"There's more Fantasy and Fun where I came From", Seriously, this isn't that hard to pick apart. Fredbear's Family Diner, as it was run and operated, was just a family restaurant with a robot bear. When Afton killed the Puppet to get the store from them, he killed what was wholesome and good about the store to make money. That is Literally what he did. He killed something wholesome and good, to make some money. Fredbear is just pointing out that, IF Afton had not killed The Puppet, the store would still be Fantastic and Fun.

-Yes, MatPat, it is a direct quote from Phone Guy. And Fantasy and Fun were in abundance at Fredbear's without Fazbear's getting involved.

-Wow... just wow... That is some massive Cajones MatPat has have to take a quote from Phone Guy in FNAF1 and Golden Freddy from FNAF6, and just assert that this clearly means that Golden Freddy is from FNAF4 (Where the hell did That come from!?), but dates all the way back to the first pizzeria and the missing children's incident.

What the hell does any of that have to do with ANYTHING!?

-"But there is consistent evidence and logic to back it all up"... I wish you would have present this 'Consistent' evidence to prove your stance... but no. You are already deliberately trying to confuse your audience into compliance... God, i'm only 14 minutes into the video.

-Okay, so MatPat is complaining that there is conflicting evidence. In Logic, we would say that this is an incompatible model. It does not comply with our observations. But I have to point out, due to intellectual integrity that When you are using assertions, it is okay to have conflicting points of data. This doesn't mean that Assertions are good in any case, but simply that when you are first analyzing the data, conflicts are bound to occur. This is the importance of keeping an open mind; You have to entertain all elements of the data, until you find a path that has no clear refutation.

What MatPat should do, before opening this to peer revision on the internet is go back to square one and try to figure out why his data is in conflict with observations. Instead, he is going to go with Sister Location as canon in lieu of FNaF Classic, because of the poor rules he decided to go with in the beginning of the video.

Note taken; The rules are just foreshadowing of problems he needs to engineer himself out of later in the video.

-Okay, so... *Sigh*... This is all well and good cluster ♥♥♥♥ of an exposition dump, but it signifies Nothing.

Basically, he is Citing various elements that are loosely tied to what he is talking about. This allows him to assert things (Like Elizabeth Afton being Victim's sister), without having to actually prove it. And, since he is talking about how the timeline doesn't sync up with his evidence, these assertions go through undetected.

-There is a bigger problem with proving the calls came from FNAF4, The fact that Spring Trap is sealed in a safe room. MatPat is trying to make the timeline seem really messy by using evidence from all over the map and tying them to a time he wants to prove for reasons.

Hell, he states that Elizabeth is supposed to be missing in FNAF4 (Which would be true regardless of 83 or 87), but then conflates that is a point of evidence in conflict with Sister Location's position in the time line. How? He doesn't provide any evidence to cement his focal premise that the FNAF2 location was open that far back.

-Called it, He refers to Rule #1 and simply rides with Sister Location.

-He points out that the Animatronics all look alike, but ignores all the animatronics that don't look like what he is talking about.

This is text book circular reasoning. These animatronics all came from Circus Baby's Pizza World, because they all look alike; They all look alike, because they came from Circus Baby's pizza world. What about Fun Time Foxy? She doesn't look like the others? Well, she doesn't come from Circus Baby's Pizza world then.

-Wait... again, how does Baby's Pizza World being open for one day prove why Victim has night terrors of stomach mouths? I get that means that Elizabeth's death, being on this one day, could have these impacts, but the way it is presented is sloppy and deliberately vague.

- Oh, and it's not proof of validity. These are events that could be connected, but there is no causality presented to support the claims.

-Alright, so the basis of these claims is that FNAF4 should happen after SL0 but before FNAF0. He is pointing out that the Most of the Fun Time animatronics have Red Cheeks, just like Mangle and Nightmarionette, but that they aren't canon because they don't exist at this stage in the story.

I thought this was supposed to clear things up? I'm starting to wonder why it's important to say that Nightmare Mangle and Nightmarionette don't exist in canon, when UCN clearly shows they are? Is this Cherry Picking again? Is he going to use their quotes while refuting their existence?

-Well, that's one way to cherry pick around the point that Spring Trap is sealed away due to the FNAF3 phone calls.

-Oh... OH! I see what the problem is that he is trying to work around.

IF FNaF 4 is in 1983, then the missing children's incident needs to be earlier then that. The puppet isn't featured in FNAF4, so he is taking the lack of evidence as evidence by Absence and trying to work backwards. That's why he is so concerned with 'proving' that the Fazbear's and fredbear's existed before and after FNAF4 in 1983.

Well, the problem is that he is making it way more complicated then it needs to be, and spinning his wheels trying to prove something he can't. Like I stated earlier, Fredbear's had previous owners, and Fazbear's bought them out. If my reasoning panned out an accurate prediction of who Purple Man is, then it stands to reason that my logic was sound in understanding what Scott was setting up. Until proven otherwise, he can't use any Fazbear Entertainment owned location for evidence until the puppet's death.

-Okay, MatPat is finally addressing the fact that he has been using FNaF2's 1987 evidence for his timeline prior to 1983. He's claimed that there is 'An elegant Solution to this' pickle. Is he going to claim the Phone calls are recorded? He's going to claim the phones are recorded, isn't he?

-... I was wrong. He didn't blame the phone calls being per-recorded as evidence to support his claim. He just simply... claims that the store had been opened for years. This smells an awfully lot like begging the question is going to occur soon, though.

-Nope, no no. They are not just 'simply' illusions. Just like Dream Theory only fills an element of the setting, and the proof for Dream theory is strictly proving the games are a work of fiction, You can't just simply use the usage of 'Illusion' in dialog of Nightmare animatronics as proof that they were created by a plot device that functionally doesn't exist in this narrative. Bold faced assertion.

-Victim does NOT want to be at Fredbear's. He is Brought there. This is explictly stated in FNAF4. Victim doesn't run off to Fredbear's, he has to be forced to go there.

-He claims to have the evidence to prove Victim dies, but is still alive and gets scooped but comes back to life in his next episode.

I'm just going to go ahead and say that MatPat has conflated characters. There is no reason to insist that Micheal IS Victim by any evidence or reason the games have to offer. They don't want the same things, they aren't characterized the same way, they don't share traits in any context. The only reason Matpat puts them together is that MatPat wants them to be the same so he can have a Darth Vader/Luke fight.

Now watch for him to project in that secretly, Micheal is a robot, but the living person is not. When is it the robot and when is it the living person? I'm going to guess the switch will be... whenever it's convenient for his theory.

Who wants to take that bet?

-And now we bring it back full circle to the advertisement regarding NordVPN. Strange, I guess he knew he was going to hit #1 trending due to topic alone and figured to cash in on some side hustle.

Well that's it for tonight, I'll condense this into a full critique tomorrow.

[Glorious M e l o n]

Postat inițial de JMaster:

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Ah alright. It seems you have no idea what you're talking about.

Almost the entirety of your comment is mindless ramble going nowhere. Secondly, how is making robots designed to CAPTURE and KILL kids "trying to save the souls of the other children"?

THE PUPPET CANNOT ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ USE A SPRING-SUIT. DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW SPRING-SUITS WORK? THE PUPPET LITERALLY CAN'T FIT OR AT LEAST MOVE INSIDE A SPRING-SUIT. DO I NEED TO POINT OUT WHY HE CAN'T MOVE INSIDE A SPRING-SUIT AGAIN?

Lefty is liability 9 because the thing is literally two animatronics trying to fight for control. Plus it wouldn't make sense to put in an animatronic into a tycoon for 5 dollars and not make it an incredibly dangerous attraction.

"The others are like animals....but I'm very aware." That line is supposed to show you that she still remembers and is aware of everything the player has done.


ALSO, stop making stupidly long pieces of texts if over half of it is mindless ramble. Just don't. It makes you look even stupider.

I have no proof for this, but isn't the Puppet taller than Springtrap/Springbonnie? Like, she's as tall as the entire Prize Corner from FNAF 2. I think Springtrap's tall if memory serves, but not THAT tall.

I was talking mostly about the fact that the puppet's limbs could not properly fit into a spring-suit therefore it couldn't move but ye.

[RippoMadness]

Postat inițial de Doctor Script:

Postat inițial de RippoMadness:

Wow. I receive over fifty notifications in my supscription feed and it's not from Felix's profile for once.

Color me impressed.

Doctor Script; Harbinger of Flame Wars, Veteran of the Conflict of 8*, Slayer of Dream Theory and the final Afton Apologist.

Keep on fighting a good fight soldier.

o7

[Glorious M e l o n]

Postat inițial de Doctor Script:

Postat inițial de RippoMadness:

Wow. I receive over fifty notifications in my supscription feed and it's not from Felix's profile for once.

Color me impressed.

Doctor Script; Harbinger of Flame Wars, Veteran of the Conflict of 8*, Slayer of Dream Theory and the final Afton Apologist.

You defend afton when he designed these things:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ErYl2kg-bVk/maxresdefault.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fnaf-sister-location/images/9/98/Blueprint.png/revision/latest?cb=20161009202423
https://img00.deviantart.net/75b7/i/2016/284/a/6/fnaf_sl_funtime_freddy_blueprints__by_dragontamer73-dakpd74.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/freddy-fazbears-pizza/images/d/d5/FNAFSL_Funtime_Foxy_Blueprints.png/revision/latest?cb=20161008002339

[Soul Night]

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Postat inițial de Doctor Script:

Doctor Script; Harbinger of Flame Wars, Veteran of the Conflict of 8*, Slayer of Dream Theory and the final Afton Apologist.

You defend afton when he designed these things:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ErYl2kg-bVk/maxresdefault.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fnaf-sister-location/images/9/98/Blueprint.png/revision/latest?cb=20161009202423
https://img00.deviantart.net/75b7/i/2016/284/a/6/fnaf_sl_funtime_freddy_blueprints__by_dragontamer73-dakpd74.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/freddy-fazbears-pizza/images/d/d5/FNAFSL_Funtime_Foxy_Blueprints.png/revision/latest?cb=20161008002339

wait i just noticed, baby is 7 some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ feet tall yet always looks like shes the size of a kid?!

[Soul Night]

heck shes taller than all the others... yet looks smaller in the trailer for sister location... even without pedestals

[JMaster]

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Postat inițial de JMaster:

I have no proof for this, but isn't the Puppet taller than Springtrap/Springbonnie? Like, she's as tall as the entire Prize Corner from FNAF 2. I think Springtrap's tall if memory serves, but not THAT tall.

I was talking mostly about the fact that the puppet's limbs could not properly fit into a spring-suit therefore it couldn't move but ye.

I know what you were referring to, but I was just saying that if she's taller, then chances are she wouldn't be able to fit. She also has 3 fingers to the 4-5 of the springsuits (I believe GF has 4, while Springtrap has 5, but I'm not sure about that), which could probably cause difficulty when using her hands.

[Soul Night]

Postat inițial de JMaster:

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

I was talking mostly about the fact that the puppet's limbs could not properly fit into a spring-suit therefore it couldn't move but ye.

I know what you were referring to, but I was just saying that if she's taller, then chances are she wouldn't be able to fit. She also has 3 fingers to the 4-5 of the springsuits (I believe GF has 4, while Springtrap has 5, but I'm not sure about that), which could probably cause difficulty when using her hands.

yeah gf had 4, at least animatronic only, fredbear (only source beeing nfb and nightmare. but idk

[Glorious M e l o n]

Postat inițial de JMaster:

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

I was talking mostly about the fact that the puppet's limbs could not properly fit into a spring-suit therefore it couldn't move but ye.

I know what you were referring to, but I was just saying that if she's taller, then chances are she wouldn't be able to fit. She also has 3 fingers to the 4-5 of the springsuits (I believe GF has 4, while Springtrap has 5, but I'm not sure about that), which could probably cause difficulty when using her hands.

not to mention her fingers aren't flexible at all really

[Soul Night]

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Postat inițial de JMaster:

I know what you were referring to, but I was just saying that if she's taller, then chances are she wouldn't be able to fit. She also has 3 fingers to the 4-5 of the springsuits (I believe GF has 4, while Springtrap has 5, but I'm not sure about that), which could probably cause difficulty when using her hands.

not to mention her fingers aren't flexible at all really

bout as flexible as an anorexic gangily person would be.

[Doctor Script]

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Postat inițial de Doctor Script:

Doctor Script; Harbinger of Flame Wars, Veteran of the Conflict of 8*, Slayer of Dream Theory and the final Afton Apologist.

You defend afton when he designed these things:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ErYl2kg-bVk/maxresdefault.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fnaf-sister-location/images/9/98/Blueprint.png/revision/latest?cb=20161009202423
https://img00.deviantart.net/75b7/i/2016/284/a/6/fnaf_sl_funtime_freddy_blueprints__by_dragontamer73-dakpd74.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/freddy-fazbears-pizza/images/d/d5/FNAFSL_Funtime_Foxy_Blueprints.png/revision/latest?cb=20161008002339

At your request; Brief.

How dare William Afton put a Song Bank on Baby.

She could have been singing Elvis Presley songs poorly!

[Glorious M e l o n]

Postat inițial de Doctor Script:

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

You defend afton when he designed these things:
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ErYl2kg-bVk/maxresdefault.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/fnaf-sister-location/images/9/98/Blueprint.png/revision/latest?cb=20161009202423
https://img00.deviantart.net/75b7/i/2016/284/a/6/fnaf_sl_funtime_freddy_blueprints__by_dragontamer73-dakpd74.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/freddy-fazbears-pizza/images/d/d5/FNAFSL_Funtime_Foxy_Blueprints.png/revision/latest?cb=20161008002339

At your request; Brief.

How dare William Afton put a Song Bank on Baby.

She could have been singing Elvis Presley songs poorly!

Funtime Freddy literally has a luring system and Baby is shown to have a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ claw to snatch up children.

[Vakkura]

and i swear if he says its a ice cream maker..

[Glorious M e l o n]

Postat inițial de Dragonnare Empire:

and i swear if he says its a ice cream maker..

oh well then he will need to explain the parental tracking on funtime freddy..parental voice sync for funtime foxy...the grouping coordinates on funtime freddy that are most likely the thing Baby used to count children to see when it's a good time to strike..the deter and misdirect part of Ballora's blueprints...

[Vakkura]

Postat inițial de Melon Badger(I like to Wiggle):

Postat inițial de Dragonnare Empire:

and i swear if he says its a ice cream maker..

oh well then he will need to explain the parental tracking on funtime freddy..parental voice sync for funtime foxy...the grouping coordinates on funtime freddy that are most likely the thing Baby used to count children to see when it's a good time to strike..the deter and misdirect part of Ballora's blueprints...

i know right

[Tiger-Bear991]

Y'know, I just thought of something.

If Script doesn't like what Scott confirms during the interview, he'll probably do what he did when Scott confirmed Willtrap & 83. Deny it because he confirmed it on Reddit and not in the game.