Characters are Missing Moves

[Sh1nRa358]

Level 3 Supers (Meteor Comboes), Excel Attacks, and Tag Team Supers are missing in this game. Will we ever recieve them?

Also, no rumble support llike the old games. I dunno why ONLY fighting game devs decide to remove optional features. Why pay $60 for a controller that won't be allowed to use all of its features for? :P

[Red]

That's not "Missing", this is simply a different system. This isn't SFEX nor Fighting Layer, this is FEXL, a 1V1 fighting game with 2D movement. Maybe they'll add LV3s for the cast down the line but it doesn't look like it will add that much to the game when we already have gougis as the main gimmick.

And since you're wondering why FG devs exclusively exclude rumble it's because no one who takes fighting games remotely seriously would leave that feature on as it affects precision in general. They're at best alright for cinematic supers, which this game only have a handful of and rarely used.

[Lipucd]

So you can preform lv3 chain supers (the meteor comboes of old), but yes, there is no lv3 supers, nor is there Excel Attacks (Though Gouki's make up for this somewhat with the options they can give you), and well it's a 1v1, I don't know why you'd expect Tag Team Supers with that being the case (This isn't EX3 by the by). The game plays a lot differently then Fighting Layer though, given that dash momentum is a BIG factor of comboing (some combos will just wiff unless started from a dash), more less the game's got a stronger focus on spacing with pacing, though comboing still plays a big part of securing damage.

[Sh1nRa358]

@Red: there are plenty of games that use rumble for online play. it still makes no sense to remove an OPTIONAL option lol. Most of these fighters have rumble on consoles but not on PC. And it's not difficult given that rumble for these characters they have the data from on past games which is where they took the skeleton data from.

DOA for pc, once you start the game, if your controller isnt on at start, the controller will simply wont even work. Gladly that wide issue isn't on this game but it's a similar premise.

And again, why are controllers getting higher every console release if we can't even use everything. It's a waste.


Lipucd:
yeah its basically isms or grooves from past games except this time it's a pain to look through them all because it's so much to read while you're just trying to fight. I would have preferred the wall bounce gimmick they introduced when it was first mentioned that they were making this game. The original fighting layer was more fluid and had chain combos. This game (by looking at the system only) is a downgrade. This game just has fast attacks, not chain combos.

[Red]

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

@Red: there are plenty of games that use rumble for online play. it still makes no sense to remove an OPTIONAL option lol. Most of these fighters have rumble on consoles but not on PC. And it's not difficult given that rumble for these characters they have the data from on past games which is where they took the skeleton data from.

DOA for pc, once you start the game, if your controller isnt on at start, the controller will simply wont even work. Gladly that wide issue isn't on this game but it's a similar premise.

And again, why are controllers getting higher every console release if we can't even use everything. It's a waste

I'm not against devs including an optional setting for rumbling, I'm simply explaining why it's not there and why the devs often don't find it worth worrying about it (Even in ports of games that had it in other platforms). It's similar to why 21:9 is practically never natively supported, because it CAN be in most games but it's suboptimal to the experience.

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

The original fighting layer was more fluid and had chain combos. This game (by looking at the system only) is a downgrade. This game just has fast attacks, not chain combos.

This thing LITERALLY has chain combos, like... They're actual chain combos, not just fast attacks that link into others (Although the game ALSO has links).

Fighting Layer also had characters without chain combos, it wasn't a global mechanic.

[Calcifer]

Dont waste time with Quanchi, look for him on Disqus, he only spend time complaining about new fighting games because nobody paid attention to him IRL.

[Red]

Originally posted by Linux Hellbender:

Dont waste time with Quanchi, look for him on Disqus, he only spend time complaining about new fighting games because nobody paid attention to him IRL.

I know Sh1nRa since forever but you're telling me that he's also the infamous Quanchi dude people namedrop and call out as annoying all the time in the comment section of several sites? LOOOOOOOOOOL! I didn't know that!

[TheRoachDude]

I would hope movesets are expanded in future updates... there's still a lot you can do in this game but I can't help to feel that it's currently a bit bare. Considering it was developed with a small team out of a 1 bedroom apartment it's certainly a great start to be expanded upon.

[Sh1nRa358]

It's fast attacks. supers cancel out specials and specials cancel out normals. Normals do not cancel out normals except when weak attacks are pressed against itself. There is no light to medium to hard chaining. Actually there is but opponent is pushed back too far for anything to connect after the 2nd hit and that's only lp, mp, hp or lk, mk, hk. True chain comboes are considered any light attack into any medium attack into any hard attack and do not require the corner only or running to the opponent first.

if you can't press lp, lk, mp, mk hp or lp, lk, mp, mk, hk in succession. That's not chain comboes.

btw don't get mad because you buy the inferior kof games that the ps2 already has better versions of which aren't missing features lol. nobody plays those crap steam ports online as you can see xD

http://www.mkcsite.com/pics/stills/unholy_alliance/pic013.jpg

[Red]

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

It's fast attacks. supers cancel out specials and specials cancel out normals. Normals do not cancel out normals except when weak attacks are pressed against itself. There is no light to medium to hard chaining. Actually there is but opponent is pushed back too far for anything to connect after the 2nd hit and that's only lp, mp, hp or lk, mk, hk. True chain comboes are considered any light attack into any medium attack into any hard attack and do not require the corner only or running to the opponent first.

if you can't press lp, lk, mp, mk hp or lp, lk, mp, mk, hk in succession. That's not chain comboes.

1) You can cancel normals into higher strength normals. Generally 3 chain attacks max (Light -> Medium -> Strong/High/Hard, however you wanna call it). You can move from punches to kicks freely, you're not forced to do the entire combo with just one of them, I'm not sure where you're getting your information from but it's all wrong, I suggest you to actually play the game or just ask someone who actually has access to it.

2) A specific gougi allows you to chain 6 attacks (Basically LP->LK->MP->MK->HP->HK) and you can also break the 3 chain convention by adding a command attack at the end and you can also use the command attack at any point of the chain (Usually back + MP or MK).

3) Chaining a light attack into itself is actually not encouraged here. You're not going to use that that much (If your character can even do that to begin with).

4) This is entirely character dependent but some natural 3 hit chains will not normally reach the opponent on the third attack. You can compensate for that by either using the correct route (Using the high attack that hits forward rather than upwards) or by using the dash momentum.

5) Even games with a more lax chain combo route (VS games, Guilty Gear, Darkstalkers, etc.) require you to decide very well the route you're using and not all chain combos with all the characters are guaranteed to connect or continue the combo. FEXL works exactly like those games, with the added option of momentum via running (Which is also present in games like Blazblue and GG).

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

if you can't press lp, lk, mp, mk hp or lp, lk, mp, mk, hk in succession. That's not chain comboes.

That's your own made up definition. A lot of games where you can do that by default also have characters who cannot do that and are limited to light->medium->hard 3 hit chains. You're also saying that Neither Guilty Gear nor Blazblue have chain combos simply because they don't use a standard capcom layout, which in return also means that none of the VS series past MVC1 also feature chain combos because they have less than 6 buttons.

[Sh1nRa358]

mvc1 has partial chain comboes which only 3 punches or 3 kicks can be chained in succession. This is the chaining that this game has. PARTIAL. You cant even do that as I said without having the enemy in the corner or having to run forward first in THIS game. This is NOT full chaining as I said. The marvel game before MVC1, you could chain all 6 buttons. That is full chaining. I've said nothing wrong.

You do not have to run first or have ppl in the corner on GG, BB or DS to do full normal chaining on those games.... So no, I'm absolutely not saying what you are manipulating :/.

[You Kissed a Boy and Liked It]

Originally posted by Red:

That's not "Missing", this is simply a different system.

No. Kairi's HP-draining "beam" desperation super and ascending "tatsumaki" special were his signature moves and defined the character / set him apart from the generic shoto club of also-rans. Skullo's "kitchen table Raging Demon" was another unique attack that defined the char. in question.

Removing these abilities is the very definition of 'MISSING'... FYI.

[NeoStrayCat]

Skullomania's "Skullo Dream" does have the table, though you had to hold I think MP+LK or LP+MK when the move connected to see the Alternate "Skullo Dream".

This also works on Shadow Geist's certain super moves as well.

[You Kissed a Boy and Liked It]

^ Okay. I'll check it out (...thanks)

[Red]

Originally posted by You Kissed a Boy and Liked It:

No. Kairi's HP-draining "beam" desperation super and ascending "tatsumaki" special were his signature moves and defined the character / set him apart from the generic shoto club of also-rans. Skullo's "kitchen table Raging Demon" was another unique attack that defined the char. in question.

Removing these abilities is the very definition of 'MISSING'... FYI.

I was talking about EXCEL and tag team combos.

Originally posted by You Kissed a Boy and Liked It:

set him apart from the generic shoto club of also-rans.

That was required because Ryu and Ken were in the game, which is no longer the case. Kairi is effectively now THE shoto of the game and his current moveset works much better for this particular game anyway.

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

mvc1 has partial chain comboes which only 3 punches or 3 kicks can be chained in succession. This is the chaining that this game has. PARTIAL. You cant even do that as I said without having the enemy in the corner or having to run forward first in THIS game. This is NOT full chaining as I said. The marvel game before MVC1, you could chain all 6 buttons. That is full chaining. I've said nothing wrong.

Chain combos by every main definition I can find that's related to fighting games talk about cancelling normals into higher strength normals and that's it. You literally said:

The original fighting layer was more fluid and had chain combos. This game (by looking at the system only) is a downgrade. This game just has fast attacks, not chain combos.

This game just has fast attacks, not chain combos.

Which is blatantly wrong. Now suddenly you bring up a completely made up on the spot "PARTIAL chain combo" as if that difference was even a thing just because you're assuming that the Darkstalkers chain combo system is the only thing that can be called a chain combo. It's like arguing whether Mortal Kombat has blocking or not because you take chip damage from normals. You're just being pedantic at this point.

Originally posted by Sh1nRa358:

You do not have to run first or have ppl in the corner on GG, BB or DS to do full normal chaining on those games.... So no, I'm absolutely not saying what you are manipulating :/.

You have to run and even perform microdashes for several combos in GG and BB but that's besides the point anyway, requiring dashes for chain combos doesn't make them not be chain combos to begin with. That's an arbitrary limitation that's entirely on you.

it's like if a particular FG had super moves that worked exactly like in every other game but that could only be used during combos. They would still be super moves even with an added limitation as long as they respect the basic definition, no one's gonna call them "Partial supers" or "Half supers".

[Sh1nRa358]

quote: 'You have to run and even perform microdashes for several combos in GG and BB but that's besides the point anyway,'

No you don't. you can do 4 to 5 hit links by standing still in those games.


quote: 'Which is blatantly wrong.'

Explained twice, still says same thing over and over. Partial chaining is not made up. It's a common sense term that clearly means you can't do it all the way with all the buttons. Specific button comboes without low to high links that can be high to low to medium or whatever the combination the devs hide are called target comboes. In SF3, these types of combos will cause more damage than the regular 'darkstalkers' chaining if you unlock true chain comboes in the system direction of SF3. Just because YOU havent heard the specific term anywhere else doesn't mean you cant use common sense to distinquish the type of comboing of these games because they clearly aren't the same type of chaining.



quote: "They would still be super moves even with an added limitation as long as they respect the basic definition, no one's gonna call them "Partial supers" or "Half supers". "

Everyone called SFA3 or CVS supers half supers if they were done with the weaker buttons instead of the stronger ones because they were literally on HALF of the super....

This is just plain scapegoating at this point lol.