Yaw for planes

[PapaJakub]

I just started Juno, so I am probably missing something basic. But when I load the SimpleTrainer stock airplane, or any other one, and I try to fly, yaw doesn't work. Instead of turning the plane it bounces it around weirdly like it was trapped in jello. What am I missing, why don't any of the planes turn when you press A or D?
The rudder seems to be moving the right way at the right time, it just doesn't do anything other than bounce the plane.

[toinkertoy]

Try Q & E keys ( the default "ROLL" keys) if I recall correctly.

ADD: those keys are in an awkward place as far as rolling an aircraft (even awkward for spaceflight controls roll left/thrust back AND roll right/thrust forward). you very well might want to assign them different keys in settings.

When you turn an aircraft you're actually rolling (or banking) the aircraft to one side or another using the ailerons (redirecting the lift vector from directly up to partially point in the direction you want to turn). Rudder is simply used to keep the aircraft nose pointed in the direction of the turn so the turn is smooth or "coordinated"

[[BLK] Telu]

You should try the tutorial about planes...

[PapaJakub]

Originally posted by toinkertoy:

Try Q & E keys ( the default "ROLL" keys) if I recall correctly.

ADD: those keys are in an awkward place as far as rolling an aircraft (even awkward for spaceflight controls roll left/thrust back AND roll right/thrust forward). you very well might want to assign them different keys in settings.

When you turn an aircraft you're actually rolling (or banking) the aircraft to one side or another using the ailerons (redirecting the lift vector from directly up to partially point in the direction you want to turn). Rudder is simply used to keep the aircraft nose pointed in the direction of the turn so the turn is smooth or "coordinated"

Yes Q and E work really well, the planes roll supper fast and reliably. Pitch (W and S) is messed up a little with the plane bouncing like a 1970 Malibu with bad shocks and struts. But at least the pitch changes with time. Yaw is totally broken, no long term turn from A and D.
So it is possible to turn the plane with just Pitch and Roll, but that does not work with a rudder on a boat for example, and those are broken in exactly the same way as the plane rudders.

[toinkertoy]

Originally posted by PapaJakub:

But when I load the SimpleTrainer stock airplane, or any other one, and I try to fly, yaw doesn't work.

Well as far as the Simple Trainer is concerned, looks like it's rudder doesn't yaw independently! It is set to "Auto" which I'm guessing means it works in conjunction with the ailerons (the Roll keys) to keep the turns coordinated ( a sort of "auto coordination" feature found on many flight sims). but I'm not for sure.

[[BLK] Telu]

I find than it's better to decrease the degree of intensity of the command. Those from the tutorial are a really too much. I believe it's the same with the stock planes.

[PapaJakub]

Ok after a lot of experimentation here is the summary. Rudders don't work when they are made from fins, they do work when they are made from a structural panel. The easiest way to test this out is on a boat. Put a hinge and a fin as a rudder, no control, switch the fin to a structural panel it works perfectly.
And before anyone asks, yes I had physics enabled on the fin.

[toinkertoy]

Yeah, usually vertical stabilizers are made using the wing part (just positioned vertically)

[[BLK] Telu]

Euh ... it work in the tutorial ...

[Stevo021]

The yaw control in this game isn't actually yaw. It turns the plane 5 degrees then flies straight in that line. It's a joke. Releasing the control just puts the plane back on it's original trajectory... How did this make it to production?

[Stinger]

Fins aren't wings, exactly, they use a hidden airfoil optimized for rocketry, which requires massive AoAs to get a high lift coefficient. Use a symmetric-airfoil wing part for your v.stab and work from there.
Granted the plane likely still won't turn much, rudder isn't very strong in most planes after all. If your plane has no dihedral, it'll also tend to roll away from where you're yawing (assuming top-side rudder), which will make that rudder seem even more useless - it's hardly the little v.stab's fault that it's getting outdone by dozens of m^2 worth of main wing!

[Taehl]

Most planes only have yaw control to help stabilize themselves - if you want to turn, roll to the side and pitch up. I can't think of a single airplane sim where yaw was for turning.

[DeltaV112]

As noted, yaw IRL is just very bad at maneuvering the aircraft. The wing is what actually generates the force required to maneuver. The yaw just yanking you into sideslip and not actually changing your trajectory is precisely what should happen.

[Monkeynut]

Originally posted by Stevo021:

The yaw control in this game isn't actually yaw. It turns the plane 5 degrees then flies straight in that line. It's a joke. Releasing the control just puts the plane back on it's original trajectory... How did this make it to production?

That`s not only exactly what Yaw means, this is also exactly how airplanes fly at cruising altitude. Or how do you want to fly straight ahead when the wind comes from the side, which is almost always the case ?
And that's what the yaw-rudder is for, only help to stabalize such flight attitudes. The yaw rudder alone is not used anyway. The airplane would only yaw and roll uncontrollably to the side. But after releasing it would actually tend to return to its original position, just as you described.

[Daddy]

To add to what Monkeynut wrote, coordinated flight is where the tail is lined up with the nose in the direction of flight, i.e., no slipping. To maintain coordinated flight through a turn, you roll some in the direction of the turn followed by applying rudder and pitch together through the turn.

Doing that using keyboard controls is challenging. I tend to use just roll then pitch when using a keyboard. But I would think it should be possible to use Vizzy to create fly-by-wire controls that would perform proper coordinated turns.

[toinkertoy]

Originally posted by Daddy:

Doing that using keyboard controls is challenging. I tend to use just roll then pitch when using a keyboard. But I would think it should be possible to use Vizzy to create fly-by-wire controls that would perform proper coordinated turns.

I don’t think you even need Vizzy for that

Originally posted by toinkertoy:

Well as far as the Simple Trainer is concerned, looks like it's rudder doesn't yaw independently! It is set to "Auto" which I'm guessing means it works in conjunction with the ailerons (the Roll keys) to keep the turns coordinated ( a sort of "auto coordination" feature found on many flight sims). but I'm not for sure.