How to troubleshoot my rockets? How to build an intuition?

[NK_]

So I just started playing the game, and while i have fun, i still have some problems. And one of the biggest sources of frustration is that i don't know how to fix my issues, besides trial and error.

So i have played the first orbiting mission, which also kind of explains customization of engines. It all worked fine and i understood it, but then i tried building my own rocket to get a small satellite into otbit. I used the numbers from the tutorial as a guidline as far as i remembered them, but the whole rocket doesn't feel balanced. Some issues i noticed in-flight:
-Boosters were quite a bit too strong
-2nd (of 3 + deploying payload) stage was quite powerful and lasted too long
-I had no chance stabilizing an orbit with my 3rd stage, which i tuned for vacuum

I fixed it as far as i could, and i got close to an orbit by banking way earlier and harder than in the tutorial mission, like 55 deg at 6k altitude, and by further forcing the rocket to gain horizontal speed rather than using prograde (My guess is nozzle diameter too wide? But I reduced it already).

I was surprised that there were such big differences and that i did not even get to establish an orbit, as i was generous with fuel and did not plan as tight as the tutorial did.
So, my questions are: Can someone more experienced tell me what is wrong with my rocket? Do i make an obvious mistake? And: How to get better with this? Except, of course, to keep playing and trying. I tried to google my questions, but for specific problems there seem to be not many sources. Are there great resources i have overlooked?
TIA

P.S. Here are screenshots of the configuration https://imgur.com/a/G0vsZuK

[toinkertoy]

Originally posted by NK_:

E D I T:

Ok, so i buit my first rocket to consistently and comfortably reach an orbit (this abomination if you're interested: https://www.simplerockets.com/c/PX7Eei/fat-boi). It is a way simpler design than the other ones.

Yeah that is a lot easier to get to orbit. It's still wobles a bit more then I'm used to lololol but that's to be expected with only a gyro to control it!

Originally posted by NK_:

I mean, in reality they do, or do i grossly underestimate the proportions of boosters to engines in real rockets?

In reality I'm not quite sure. In game I can say I've often been surprised by how little extra dv you get strapping solid rocket boosters on! But I think it makes sense. You will always get more dv by adding fuel (which is basically what a booster is) but rate at which dv goes up will decrease (because of added mass) if that makes sense?

200 kg. fuel yields 1000 dv

the next 200 kg. ads 500 dv to that (not 1000) because it also has to lift the first 200 kg. of fuel which is useless (or dead weight) till later

[NK_]

Originally posted by toinkertoy:

Are these Pad restrictions in career mode? Sounds like you're stuck with Juno Village pad? I only ever launched 4 rockets from that pad, Ali pad is much better! With a bit of practice and memorizing the flight profile to a tee (or write it down) I think you can do the 5 min. to orbit using the tutorial rocket (think i did it in 4 min 56 seconds) or try this rocket I know it definitely can! just fly it on the same profile as the tutorial rocket.

https://www.simplerockets.com/c/Vyn26s/Droo-Orbit-CubeSat-Deployer-for-Career

That could be the major problem here. With the size limitations placed on Juno village pad you have to very economical with your design and stringent with the flight profile!

Thank you so much for answering all the questions! So technically i was not stuck, as i did not even try to get to Ali Pad (In fact i didn't even have the mission; I finished the orbital tutorial and then wanted to figure that out on my own. That was when i created this post). Anyway, now i have it unlocked, i managed to finish the 5 minutes mission with your build.

Would you mind explaining that rocket? I had a look at it and it seems to contradict the whole rocket i built and we have discussed all the time. It has a very weak solid stage (after which, i suppose, one should initiate the pitch?), then another quite weak liquid engine stage which barely gets you out of atmosphere. And the last stage is for stabilizing the orbit, but has quite a dv. I thought one needs a ton of dv just to escape earth, and that the dv for orbit maneuvers is very manageable, but your rocket is built opposite

[toinkertoy]

So I found the tutorial orbital rocket was just barely enough to get into orbit (and many weren’t even able to get into orbit with it). Even if you fly the launch profile precisely as the tutorial tells you too, you’ll only be left with less then 100 dv, if I recall correctly.

I essentially tried to copy the tutorial rocket when designing that rocket, but then add enough fuel in the third stage to do some cubesat deployments at higher altitudes (300-200 km). So you’ll notice the 1st and 2nd stages are also bigger (to accommodate the larger 3rd stage) and I also went with 5 engine second stage design (instead of 1) for stylistic reasons, but I kept the 3 stage design and similar thrust to weight ratios of the original rocket so players could fly it like the tutorial rocket.

It’s not the typical way I would design a rocket (my Brigo/Luna flyby rocket is more typical of my designs). And of course it’s not that you can’t make 3 stage rockets or that there’s something wrong with that. Just that 2 stage will do just fine and, to me at least, adding a third kinda makes it more complicated! I always go with 2 stages where the 2nd stage is usually only used for orbit insertion burn at apogee (unless it’s a heavy payload in which case I won’t reach my desired apogee with the booster alone and need to burn the second stage a bit to hit it)


Yeah the most dv you’ll need is to get into orbit (4900-5200 or about). In contrast, to raise your orbit to the moon (for a lunar mission) you’ll need 1250-1280 dv. For a geostationary orbit it was about 1680 dv (in two separate burns of course) so relatively speaking not much compared to Low Drop Orbit. Now orbital inclination and Right Accession changes is a different story altogether so it’s best to target those during launch!


ADD: and i SHOULD be using the term “2 stage to orbit” in all these posts! Cause I do have rockets that are more then 2 stages but those stages aren’t used till after already in orbit (so still 2 stage to orbit). But I have gotten a tad lazy so…

[[BLK] Telu]

I just want to answer about the fact than, at the beginning, we are limited in terms of rocket size. It's 10 meters high max or something like that. And some other restrictions due to the beginning.

And, indeed, the tutorial rocket make it barely to orbit. There is not much extra fuel when you are done with it.