Defensive Futility

[Icerazer]

Are there any plans to make defenses actually useful...? I was really enjoying the game until the bronze age, when the game stopped to tell me to build defenses.

The palisade tool seemed finiky as hell, but sure. I spent about 45 minutes making sure my gaps were filled and I had room to expand. Well, if you've played the game a bit, you know what came next: the raiders just walked where I CAN'T build defenses, OR even better, just plowed right though them like wet tissue.

Was this play tested? I just-- I feel like I'm missing something. Why tell me to build something that's a pointless waste of resources? I hope there's something coming down the pipe to address this, because right now I feel like someone took a dump on my mammoth steak.

[MaGicBush]

yep, I have seen a lot of topics about this issue.

[pwb:{]

I usually make complete surrounding of village by wall, and not using any natural object as boundary. This seems working well. All raiders either attach gate or walls. I did not see them go through the wall.

By the way, I only draw the wall outline with straight lines, not the diagonal line.

[Raider_1001]

Raider attack directions are predetermined in 4~5 possible vectors from my observation. I just build a cluster of 5 towers in each of the vectors raider could attack from and put walls before the towers. Once raider comes I just sound the alarm and gather all the villagers behind the towers and the raiders will drop like flies.

At best the raider will take down 4 of the 5 towers in a attack vector, but rebuild them is a lot faster than waiting for new villagers to spawn and replace the dead ones.

[Adonia50]

I have no issues defending my base. I don't see this as an issue. My entire village is completely surrounded with a wall and towers every few blocks. I rarely lose a person / dog even in the steel age

[dan2050]

I think there is a discrepancy between player expectation and utility. The expectation is that walls will keep the bad guys out and towers will stand firm and kill raiders invincibly from afar. There is also some expectation that the raiders will be cunning and sneak about, attack from two direction etc.
What really happens? The towers and walls delay raider advancement while home forces gather, and reduce the raider strength before villagers start getting hit. The guys in the towers get to shoot without taking damage, until the tower is knocked down. This is tactically very useful but mostly doesn't feel right.
I have found that carefully placed watchtowers is about all you need. When you sound the horn fighters will gather behind the watchtower and charge forth as needed. You do lose a villager or two and some dogs, even if well armed with bows, but the expense of building extensive fortifications doesn't seem to be compensated for by a good enough benefit.
If I was going to adjust anything I would be inclined to make the raiders better at killing people and dogs a bit. Also get them to plunder goods and slaughter or steal animals. Then the walls and towers would be really beneficial.

[Calinostro]

It seems that many people simple don't use the defenses as intended. Here are a couple of things i learned in various hardcore playthroughs:

1. Already mentioned above, always build a full wall around the village without using rocks or other parts of the environment as part of the wall. Once masonry is available, build double layer walls and, in areas the get pounded the most, even triple layer. It can also be done already with the palisades but is rather tedious.
2. Towers should not be placed close to the wall, they need to be out of reach for spears . Towers have quite a good reach and only a few of the raiders usually bring bows. Doing so reduces rebuild cost dramatically
3. Whenever a raider attack is announced, call everybody in immediately (defense panel) and close all gates before the raiders get too close. You might have to sacrifice a few who won't make it in time
4. Raiders will always go for the closest gate (unless it is very far away) and split up when multiple gates are in reach
5. Monitor the assaults and fine tune the placement of towers and multi-layer wall pieces as required.

With applying all of the above, I have very few problems with even heavy raider assaults. Losses are ranging from none to a few. When settlements get very large, there are always some people who don't make it into safety before the gates close or they get caught while hunting or in the fields.

[Furley]

Originally posted by Zondran:

It seems that many people simple don't use the defenses as intended. Here are a couple of things i learned in various hardcore playthroughs:

1. Already mentioned above, always build a full wall around the village without using rocks or other parts of the environment as part of the wall. Once masonry is available, build double layer walls and, in areas the get pounded the most, even triple layer. It can also be done already with the palisades but is rather tedious.
2. Towers should not be placed close to the wall, they need to be out of reach for spears . Towers have quite a good reach and only a few of the raiders usually bring bows. Doing so reduces rebuild cost dramatically
3. Whenever a raider attack is announced, call everybody in immediately (defense panel) and close all gates before the raiders get too close. You might have to sacrifice a few who won't make it in time
4. Raiders will always go for the closest gate (unless it is very far away) and split up when multiple gates are in reach
5. Monitor the assaults and fine tune the placement of towers and multi-layer wall pieces as required.

With applying all of the above, I have very few problems with even heavy raider assaults. Losses are ranging from none to a few. When settlements get very large, there are always some people who don't make it into safety before the gates close or they get caught while hunting or in the fields.

I've never seen them go for the gates. Normally all my fighters are gathered at the gates while the raiders head straight to whatever wall is in front of them.

[General Malaise]

Originally posted by Furley:

Originally posted by Zondran:

It seems that many people simple don't use the defenses as intended. Here are a couple of things i learned in various hardcore playthroughs:

1. Already mentioned above, always build a full wall around the village without using rocks or other parts of the environment as part of the wall. Once masonry is available, build double layer walls and, in areas the get pounded the most, even triple layer. It can also be done already with the palisades but is rather tedious.
2. Towers should not be placed close to the wall, they need to be out of reach for spears . Towers have quite a good reach and only a few of the raiders usually bring bows. Doing so reduces rebuild cost dramatically
3. Whenever a raider attack is announced, call everybody in immediately (defense panel) and close all gates before the raiders get too close. You might have to sacrifice a few who won't make it in time
4. Raiders will always go for the closest gate (unless it is very far away) and split up when multiple gates are in reach
5. Monitor the assaults and fine tune the placement of towers and multi-layer wall pieces as required.

With applying all of the above, I have very few problems with even heavy raider assaults. Losses are ranging from none to a few. When settlements get very large, there are always some people who don't make it into safety before the gates close or they get caught while hunting or in the fields.

I've never seen them go for the gates. Normally all my fighters are gathered at the gates while the raiders head straight to whatever wall is in front of them.

I build a ton of Towers, so all my fighters get into towers, leaving practically no-one free. I tend also to lose between zero and a few(depending on whether they found my weakest part). I do tend to lose a lot of my faithful hounds though.

I will try the above, as I'm about to try the Warrior one on Hardcore. I guess that technique, you must be prepared to constantly move the boundaries of your settlement outwards. It's a bit unrealistic to start building a defended area, big enough to accommodate 150, when you only have 40 for example.

I think I made 150 Composite Bows on my last playthrough(Northern Realms Hardcore), but I think only about 60 chose to have them. I guess that's fair enough, as many wanted knives and sickles to multitask. I know they will swap tools, so don't know why they don't rush to pick up a Composite Bow when I get attacked.

[Skeev]

Originally posted by dan2050:

fighters will gather behind the watchtower and charge forth as needed.

In my games they gather behind gates not watchtowers.

[buds]

I like the walls be manned and built like corrugated with steps so that I can reduce or not making towers side by side. The towers need to be able to merge with the walls like in stronghold crusaders do it will look nice.

[calicovi]

i wish you could place walls more when i get to a mountain it wont let me place them so the city gets distroyed by raiders coming over the mountain

[Nakia]

Towers are made from cardboard. Spears and arrows alone should not knock down a tower. Flaming arrows might set those wood and thatch structures on fire but not knock them down.

By the way thanks for all the excellent advice from everyone.

[p.stucki]

In my Continental Dawn scenario I keep the fortifications basically for aesthetic reasons. The raiders are always clearly outnumbered and I barely lose someone. And even if so, the losses get replaced quickly. While the palisades / walls are at least a bit useful to herd the attackers to the gates, the Towers are just plain waste of time and resources.

EDIT:

Especially since Towers need logs and one can`t store logs, since one can`t prevent them from being wasted as firewood. Just a hint for future updates.

[endangered species]

Originally posted by Nakia:

Towers are made from cardboard. Spears and arrows alone should not knock down a tower. Flaming arrows might set those wood and thatch structures on fire but not knock them down.

By the way thanks for all the excellent advice from everyone.

+1, exactly.
Been wondering this was not "fixed" in current patch. Looking out for a mod from the workshop until then. If this is the way it's supposed to be any realism on these structures fell flat.

[Paraleo]

Originally posted by p.stucki:

And even if so, the losses get replaced quickly.

what do you mean quickly I waited 2 game years for 5 people to be replaced