Dawn of Man

Dawn of Man

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TheDarkside Apr 11, 2020 @ 6:51pm
What's the point of copper?
I am wondering if I'm missing something, by the stats shown in game it appears all the copper items are equivalent to flint items. Also same value to traders. But it takes more effort so I don't get the point of copper

Also it just seems like the copper age overall is just boring. Not much new fun stuff to work with.
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Showing 1-15 of 30 comments
General Malaise Apr 11, 2020 @ 6:56pm 
I've made this point before. Copper Tools/Weapons are no better than flint, yet take a huge amount more effort to produce: Mine/Make Charcoal/Smelt?Fabricate. Flint you just mine and fabricate. For this reason, I never make Copper Weapons or tools. Don't you get Carts? They cool.
Atlas the Hoss Apr 11, 2020 @ 9:15pm 
It is weird, why add that in when there is something else that you can use with the same stats
Andrewbh2003 Apr 11, 2020 @ 9:28pm 
well copper is more meant as a way to both farm some free research points by crafting your first set of copper tools

and also as the raw material required to make bronze so think of it more as a transition phase
Peyhah Apr 11, 2020 @ 11:49pm 
In game, you may as well get a few knowledge points out of it, and use it as a period to acclimatise your workload to include mining/smelting

Humans have always liked new things, shiny things, things that last longer before they break, so in the paleo-history it makes sense that people used copper a bit.
Shampoo+3 Apr 11, 2020 @ 11:51pm 
Copper axes and picks are better than flint ones. While you get alot of axes from raiders, that's not the case for picks. Because I usually hoard stone before transitioning to bronze age making copper picks actually has a purpouse. The ores you get from the trader are sufficient though. The only time I have my villagers mining, is when upgrading watchtowers to guard towers.
korac Apr 12, 2020 @ 1:38am 
The Chalcolithic period (Copper Age), which stretched about 1,200 years, was a hugely important step in man's history, being the period of transition from stone to metal tools. Learning to identify the valuable minerals, grinding the metal-bearing ores, the correct method for perfecting smelting, and then the fashioning of those metals into useful tools. It's not something that happened overnight and it's only right that it should be fairly represented in the game, even if this period is glossed over in our schools and most children are taught that the Copper Age was only a minor affair in comparison to what preceded it, or what followed it.

Pure copper is however a very soft metal and easily worn / blunted, so in the game this is correctly represented by being only marginally superior to the flint knapping technology of the late Neolithic period (just axes and picks are). To make it greatly superior in the game would be just plain wrong, so I commend the devs on that decision, tough though I expect it was to stick to realism rather than delve into fantasy to satisfy gamer perceptions / preferences.

Don't diss the Copper Age! Not only does it bring us Rye - the single most productive source of grain in the game (Barley yields more straw), but also donkey domestication to make use of carts, which is one of the great efficiency enhancers in the game. Not to mention cows, which are a great combination of meat and milk and, pound for pound, get you the best value production out of your available stable space -- and they can pull plows if needed.

But above all, for me the Copper Age is the time to properly plan & lay out an efficient and streamlined metalworking area. Charcoal is the real root of all future metalworking, so my metalworking area goes on the side of the village from which I expect most future logs to come, regardless of potential mine locations. Log piles are placed on that side of the Charcoal Pits, with rock piles specifically reserved for charcoal on the other. Just beyond those will be the Pit Furnaces to use that charcoal, beside which will also be their rock piles reserved for the various Ores. Nearby, a Storage Hut will be placed for the resulting metals, alongside which will be found the Metalworkers themselves, with handy Stick piles also close to them, and another Storage hut as the main tool store. I always lay out all of this on a large scale while in the Copper Age, of sufficient size to cope with the subsequent high demand of the Bronze and Iron ages, so we're ready to churn out the good stuff when finally I allow my people to advance an Age.

An aside, I've played on some map locations where there was lots of copper available and very little flint, so advancing to the Copper Age became almost an urgent necessity as continuing to rely on flint tools was becoming highly inefficient, since the mines were so few / far away. That correctly simulates actual history, since copper production emerged and was used mostly in areas where viable alternatives were very scarce -- otherwise we would probably have been stuck in the Stone Age (literally) for a lot longer than we actually were!

Edit: Phew! What a wall... Blame the isolation. :)
Last edited by korac; Apr 12, 2020 @ 2:53am
General Malaise Apr 12, 2020 @ 4:05am 
My point about making Copper tools, is not about historical accuracy - but whether it's worth it in the game. To me it's not, I buy loads of tech, so the effort to make 10 Copper tools/weapons for a few points isn't worth it(unless I'm desperate for something).

I believe Emmer Gives the most Grain. Chance of 25% extra, compared to 15% for Rye.

Carts are great, but Cattle no longer work. If they're pulling ploughs they no longer give milk. Even though you get 2 milk from a cow, and one from a goat - I've gone back to keeping a few goats.

Just for information. I believe all the stone for The Pyramids was carved with Copper Tools, and at the time, Copper was more Valuable than Gold. Tutankamun, was buried with an Iron dagger, but this has been found to come from a meteorite.
Strategic Sage Apr 12, 2020 @ 7:15am 
I think it's good point that on default settings - which I never use - copper isn't worth it. I think making flint less durable etc. could be worth exploring. Copper should be superior in some way for game balance.
korac Apr 12, 2020 @ 7:48am 
Originally posted by Leland Stottlemeyer:
I believe Emmer Gives the most Grain. Chance of 25% extra, compared to 15% for Rye.

Really? For some reason I thought it was the other way around... not sure where I got that from, though, so you may well be right. Emmer hates me, however - I only plant some to attract disease (i.e. to maybe reduce the chance of other crops getting it), which for me it seems to do an awful lot.

Fair point about some of the copper tools - as a general rule I'll only make picks, and maybe some axes, for the extra speed & efficiency, but if there's an abundance of copper ore fairly close by then I'll make them all in significant quantity (especially if tin for bronze seems poor locally).

It's not so much about the extra KP for techs (like you, I trade for many of mine) but rather being able to trade away all those old tools while they're still actually worth trading, and before they deteriorate anyway... Besides, it just feels better to see most of my people walking around with the shiny new tools. :D
buds Apr 12, 2020 @ 11:40am 
I normally stay as long as I can in copper age until the raiders advance in weaponry, at around 88 population. Getting more copper ores (at least 100 if possible) for use in Bronze Age.

Trading all possible resources that will diminish in value before advancing and timing it so that upgrade/s are more smoother. Copper axe and picks are a bit better but axe are mostly provided by the raiders so copper picks are more necessary (10 units only) to expedite collecting copper ores.

So after getting all KP from copper tools, I turn off copper metal smelting.

What is most important is the the wheel and donkeys/cattle techs to increase efficiency. Copper age is like increasing efficiency of the Neolithic era. So every metal era creates upgrades and things need to be rebalanced from every previous era.

Getting a good number of cattle and donkeys leading up to Bronze Age will be the focus, 25 numbers of each might give you a steady growth of each animals up to a hundred. The only problem is how you can protect them from raids.
bulbatrs Apr 12, 2020 @ 12:40pm 
Originally posted by buds:
I normally stay as long as I can in copper age until the raiders advance in weaponry, at around 88 population. Getting more copper ores (at least 100 if possible) for use in Bronze Age.

Trading all possible resources that will diminish in value before advancing and timing it so that upgrade/s are more smoother. Copper axe and picks are a bit better but axe are mostly provided by the raiders so copper picks are more necessary (10 units only) to expedite collecting copper ores.

So after getting all KP from copper tools, I turn off copper metal smelting.

What is most important is the the wheel and donkeys/cattle techs to increase efficiency. Copper age is like increasing efficiency of the Neolithic era. So every metal era creates upgrades and things need to be rebalanced from every previous era.

Getting a good number of cattle and donkeys leading up to Bronze Age will be the focus, 25 numbers of each might give you a steady growth of each animals up to a hundred. The only problem is how you can protect them from raids.
I would understand if we were talking about rimworld, but this game so darn easy that you don't need to powerplay at all. even on hardcore acient warriors scenario it's just super chill village simulator. reading on how you try to squeeze out value in this game is just hilarious.
Strategic Sage Apr 12, 2020 @ 12:46pm 
Some people like to squeeze everything out of a scenario even if they don't have to. Not to mention that there's plenty of other threads with people unable to grow population, having people starving, getting beaten repeatedly on hardcore scenarios, etc. Not everyone has the same skill level, which is one good reason why there's mods to change things up.
buds Apr 12, 2020 @ 12:57pm 
This game doesn’t need higher skill level. It’s just understanding how to play it. And I have so much time and patience to play it to get to where my game leads to: infinite and sustainable settlement that could thrive until I stop playing it.

Every player has its own strategy and style of gaming. Like I play AoE2 and neutralizing 2 hardest AI without chopping down more than 20% of the trees near my settlement. Same as playing 0ad or even Rise if Natoons. I just love to play against the AI so I have to figure out how I can maximize effectiveness to have a better result.

What value did I squeeze into this game? Im just presenting my strategy that made me successful on every DoM game I play and mostly in hardcore. Can you tame more than 300 dogs?

Mods make some iteration to make the game more interesting. As a matter of fact I’m playing modded games and trying to play the hardest playable modded game available.

Also if you completed the AW hardcore can you show these struggling people how to do it? Or you can’t show anything?
Last edited by buds; Apr 12, 2020 @ 1:37pm
Calico-Jack Apr 13, 2020 @ 2:58am 
Originally posted by TheDarkside:
I am wondering if I'm missing something, by the stats shown in game it appears all the copper items are equivalent to flint items. Also same value to traders. But it takes more effort so I don't get the point of copper

Also it just seems like the copper age overall is just boring. Not much new fun stuff to work with.

In the context of humanity copper is where people learned to smelt metals out of non metallic looking rocks, which led them to discover other metals that had similar melting points to copper, and mixing alloys which led to bronze technology which led them to looking at ways of producing more, which in turn led to experimentation in furnace designs allowing hotter core temperatures and as a result iron working, which then led to discovering methods for making steel.

This is simplifying of course the tech advances in unrelated areas also led to metallurgy - like pottery for example.

In the context of the game - each superseded technology will still be usable during the next meaning your settlement won't grind dramatically to a halt as soon as you enter a new tech age and don't have the necessary infrastructure set up to produce the new materials. That and you almost certainly don't want to be facing off holding flint weapons against raiders armed with bronze ones. Switching from Bronze to Iron tech is less of a jump than from Stone to Copper because you already have access to the production infrastructure, the facilities just need to be upgraded rather than starting from scratch.


It also allows you to future proof your settlement and plan for population growth.
Gromarch Apr 13, 2020 @ 4:36am 
I've started a mod, in a spot with next to no flint. I really look forward to copper.
Thought it used to hold a bit longer than flint, in the game?
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Date Posted: Apr 11, 2020 @ 6:51pm
Posts: 30