Enemies don't invoke emotion

[bxb209]

As a big fan of games like System Shock 2 which had very compelling villains and a great story, VB is lacking in creating motivations for the player to hate or fear the opponents they face.

I'm new to the game but encountering the same types of enemies over and over without reason to engage other than they're in your way, feels weak.

I'll enjoy the game for what it is, but just sayin'.

[Gandalf]

This is mostly the narrative's fault. My main question from the trailer (prior release) was what the heck happened to the citizens and they ended up in this state. Zero lore on the matter. Zero lore in general in fact in terms of what is going on.

[Tanasinn [AZ]]

To OP, play on harder difficulties. The enemies will get scary real quick.

To Gandalf, they explain it early on that the citizens used to be regular people but they spent so much time in the nebula gases that they began to mutate.

[MarkedMarkyMark]

Originally posted by tanasinn:

To OP, play on harder difficulties. The enemies will get scary real quick.

To Gandalf, they explain it early on that the citizens used to be regular people but they spent so much time in the nebula gases that they began to mutate.

They aren't that scary on harder difficulties either, and, honestly the game feels very...un-replayable, there's no big enemy variety, no bosses unless I missed something, and, is very short, it honestly would be a better game if it wasn't roguelike, it feels like it didn't want to be one, there's like, no real reason to replay other than for challenge, which, the challenge being, run fast, pick stuff, escape, which is really easy.

If it was a linear game, with better encounter design, and heck even a few challenging bosses or sections it'd be honestly way better. I was really happy with it when I bought and finished it in about 8 hours on hard mode, and when it ended I went like ''what?'' cause, it was really short and, it really dosen't offer anything new on harder difficulties other than the spoon thingie. It's barebones as a roguelike, and the narrative suffers from the roguelike nature of it too, so no one really wins.

The art style is pretty great tho', and i love everything about it, so i don't feel bad for buying it, just, it's a 6 out of 10 game for me. I really wish it was more, i'm super into the art style, but the gameplay is borderline forgettable.

[bxb209]

"I really wish it was more, i'm super into the art style, but the gameplay is borderline forgettable."

Sadly, I fear you're right there. There could be so much more done in this type of space piracy/looting game, but it would be a major overhaul. Maybe modders can do something.

System Shock 2, this is not.

[MarkedMarkyMark]

Originally posted by bxb209:

"I really wish it was more, i'm super into the art style, but the gameplay is borderline forgettable."

Sadly, I fear you're right there. There could be so much more done in this type of space piracy/looting game, but it would be a major overhaul. Maybe modders can do something.

System Shock 2, this is not.

I mean, I didn't want system shock 2, there's an unique thing here with the humor and stuff, again if it was linear and more focused rather than what it is, It'd be something better imo. But also, I know this probably didn't have the biggest budget ever, for what it is, it was fun, but it did make me want more.

[Powerslave]

The reason all the people died/turned is because of a crazy "nebula". And as a "roguelike", your just not really concerned about the mobs much. Roguelikes are also short on plot. Its usually escape, or kill evil wizard.

[AlCool]

I guess technically there is bosses but they are just buffed versions of the same enemies that you sometimes get as one of the ship modifiers.

I do wish there was more interesting things going on in encounters though. Asteroids causing ship disruption, screen shaking, making holes in windows to drain oxygen faster. Sections of ship becoming inaccessible due to breaking a door, or being blown off entirely due to some catastrophic event. Enemies in the ventilation that you frequently see blown open. Enemies that can use the crawl space.

There is so much room for expansion and I hope Blue Manchu gives this game the love and attention moving forward that they did with Card Hunter (Maybe even coop?). My excitement and fun playing got lower for each hour I played it. I don't regret it at all but it's the opposite of what I would hope for, where the game pulls you in more the more you play.

[Netsa]

Every enemy talks, just not all of them are as loud as the Juve and Scribe. I liked the friendly tourists, personally. "Hey, you?! YES. YOU!!!???" Much scarier than the Screw will ever be.

I agree with the OP, but I don't think it would take much of an overhaul to give the environment more depth. All of the elements are there, there's just no information. There's a ton of things they could do without changing much:

- Add a description to every item, weapon, ship type, and room type in the menu, a la Risk of Rain.
- Add some tapes, a la Bioshock. You can listen to them on the ship if you have time, or listen to them on the Stev.
- Massively increase the number of voice lines on each monster so that they are both louder and eerily educational. Same for the intercom messages.
- Add some scripted cutscenes or special events that appear at certain intervals or in specific places that you're guaranteed to see, a la Path of Exile (Atlas, specifically). Many of the Action Item ships don't change over different playthroughs.

The world doesn't need heroes and villains, that's a copout. it just needs to be more interesting to discover. Just look at what the game has in it. There's set item locations, there's space whales and ship-eaters, an all-female pirate force, and there's crazy mutants and severed heads that can still talk perfect English. Even ignoring the Nebula macguffin, there's so many people in packets that they form a solid ring around some planet (that's a LOT of people!), almost everything is run by robots, and people are getting desiccated for doing next to nothing.

Obviously, there's a lot that can be done with all that, and they don't need to drop the rogue aspect to do it.

[Slurs! In the Discord]

There can be more events, more ship varieties and such. Maybe little things you can loot in ships that have lore in it and a codex.

Because I kinda agree that once you beat it, nothing really draws you back aside from completionism.

[Sigvuld]

They explain what happened to all these ships and the citizens aboard them early on. They were warped by the nebula, and their ships trashed by the resulting mutations and pirates/raiders.

You're killing them because they're attacking you/in your way as you try and get things that are necessary to rebuild the Void Ark, which is quite literally the only option you have that doesn't involve dying.

It has a System Shock vibe in that it's innocent people warped into strange creatures that attack you in a sci-fi environment, not because it somehow plays like System Shock or invokes the same emotions while fighting enemies as System Shock. It's just thematic stuff.

This is not a game for overthinking the plot. It's pretty straightforward, and so are the reasons your enemies exist and attack you. They didn't put a hat on a blob shouting about how he's not a cat to emulate System Shock's hard-hitting story and lore.

[Lucas]

I just hope the devs read this thread. I'm only 13 hours in the game and I already finish it... There is not much reason to replay since the enemies are the same and there are no more objectives left. Its a solid game tho but 100% agree it needs more content because the game itself has a huge potential.
------------------------------------------------I have to agree with this---------------
- Add some tapes, a la Bioshock. You can listen to them on the ship if you have time, or listen to them on the Stev.
- Massively increase the number of voice lines on each monster so that they are both louder and eerily educational. Same for the intercom messages.
- Add some scripted cutscenes or special events that appear at certain intervals or in specific places that you're guaranteed to see, a la Path of Exile (Atlas, specifically). Many of the Action Item ships don't change over different playthroughs.
---------------------------------------------And I would suggest even more-------------
More events in the game, and more possibilities:
>be able to raid pirate ships for best loot
>explore your own stev ship and have events there... like (your ship is getting invaded by whatever)
>neutral strong enemies like the big daddies from bioshock
>randomized bosses for gud loot (I know there is a mechanic similar to bosses, but I'm talking about unique bosses, not a standard enemy but stronger)
>be possible to follow a diferent objective and do not return to the main base.. since you are a prisioner makes sense not wanting to return. (the actual ending is funny but its somewhat predictable, would be neat to be able to diverge from the current objective)

And finally I guess everyone agree that we need more enemies
Not only more nebula mutated people, but I think we need nebula beasts, things that live there naturaly to invade your own ship or follow you like the pirates when you are traveling.

[Lucas]

I just hope that the devs don't abandon this game as it is.

[Gandalf]

They are working on new content. They ve said so many times. We dont know what it is but they hinted at replayability

[PhotriusPyrelus]

Originally posted by bxb209:

As a big fan of games like System Shock 2 which had very compelling villains and a great story, VB is lacking in creating motivations for the player to hate or fear the opponents they face.

I'm new to the game but encountering the same types of enemies over and over without reason to engage other than they're in your way, feels weak.

As to the OP, I dunno about you, but I have plenty of cause to fear screws. And letting patients get close to me. And not being stealthy about taking out zeks. I fear those two so much, I take radiation spiker to every mission with them. I fear security features so much I take the zapper to every single mission that doesn't have security features subverted or disabled.

Enemies in this game are obstacles. You're not meant to "hate" them, you're supposed to avoid them whenever you can, they cost resources (ammo at least and probably some health) to engage. Unfortunately I've found most of them particularly difficult to avoid (and so they don't surprise me later), so I usually do throw ammo into them and try to minimize the loss of resources.

Originally posted by Gandalf:

This is mostly the narrative's fault. My main question from the trailer (prior release) was what the heck happened to the citizens and they ended up in this state. Zero lore on the matter. Zero lore in general in fact in terms of what is going on.

What bothers me isn't that it happened to these people, but that it *hasn't* happened to the Clients or Pirates.

I'm also bothered by fires being on ships (and they're clearly O2-based fires, since asbestos protects you from them), but not being able to breathe on them.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Ferraz:

I just hope that the devs don't abandon this game as it is.

Originally posted by Gandalf:

They are working on new content. They ve said so many times. We dont know what it is but they hinted at replayability

They said that, but there's no indication that it's much more than minor changes and switches for RNG. There isn't much of a hint at any serious content being added yet, like what we're talking about.

Imagine if Binding of Isaac stayed on the first version of the game, stuck on Newgrounds. That's what Void Bastards feels like.