Mispronunciation of words.

[kc_sword]

In the very first video shown on the Steam page, they clearly state "We are Prin-Keps"

The spelling of the word is "Princeps"
"Princeps - root word: prince (Pur - inse)"
Therefore, it should be "Pur-in-seps"

This is a HUGE immersion problem, and needs to be corrected before I will purchace this game.

[Anapoda]

Actually it is supposed that the letter "C" in latin was pronounced as a "K".

Not sure if it's a sure thing or not though.

[The Magos]

It greatly depends on the dialect of Latin you're intending to speak.

In Classical Latin (that of the Roman Empire), it was pronounced "preen-keps". The "i" was pronounced as a long E, as in "fleece". The "e" was pronounced as a short E, as in "dress". The R-sound was very strong, like the Russians do.

In Medieval Latin, it was pronounced "preen-cheps". The "k" has the sound of "ch" (as in "choice") before E, in medieval Latin only.

The "preen-seps" pronunciation was actually very unusual and occurred only in Western dialects of New Latin. Even then, it was "preen-seps" and not "prin-seps".

Given the choice, we decided on "prin-keps" as the best pronunciation of the word in the 40K context, but all three pronunciations are actually technically correct. :)

[kc_sword]

Ok, GR00V3R, that is a nicely researched answer. However, based on this information, I would think that the "western, new latin' dialect might be the more correct pronunciation; concidering that the creators of the original game were / are Brittish (i.e. more familiar with western Latin dialects)

Also, after reading your response, you are attempting to change the pronunciation of a very well known consonant, the letter "C"
Speciffically, you state that the "k" has the sound of "ch" which was never disputed. But poster Anapoda stated:

"Actually it is supposed that the letter "C" in latin was pronounced as a "K". Not sure if it's a sure thing or not though."

I would argue that it's not. Specifically look to the Roman Legions. Do we call a leader a 'kenturion' or a 'centurion' Do we call a small ammount of money a kent, or a cent. Clearly, the letters 'C' and 'K' were seperate.

Then you have to take about 38,000 years of linguistic drift into account.

[kc_sword]

GR00V3R said: but all three pronunciations are actually technically correct. :)

And THIS is the problem with using a dead language (Latin) as a basis for your far-future Sci-fi universe.

[kc_sword]

Finally, If it was changed to the 'Western Latin' version, "we are Preen-seps" it would be far more palatable to us westerners.

I'm just speaking for myself, but for some reason - Preen-seps sounds like it would be more easily incorporated into english (Anglish, Low Gothic) than Prin-keps would .

[WereChicken]

The prin keps line did sound... odd. I wouldn't say immersion shattering, it just sounded a bit weird

[The Magos]

I understand where you're coming from, so it's all good. :)

For the record, though, "centurion" was also pronounced with a hard-C in classical Latin. (Yes, this knowledge burns my brain too.) ;)

This argument actually tends to pop up a fair bit in English, too. Take the word "celtic" for example. I tend to use the hard-C where some others use the soft-C. So while I pronounce it as "kel-tick". I know others think it should be "sel-tick". For many years, I thought they were just wrong to pronounce it that way, but on later research I've learned that both pronunciations are historically (if not technically) acceptable.

If you're interested, there's some pretty good general info on Wikipedia about this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_C

[Conducting Kraken]

also remember that imperial gothic isnt latin but based very loosely on latin and in the imperium there are hundreds if not thousands of different accents so would depend on your world of origin even speaking "high" gothic

[The Magos]

True. :)

Full disclosure: I personally pronounced it "prin-seps" until I had a conversation with someone at GW who casually pronounced it as "prin-keps". Yes, my mind was blown. Much research ensued, upon which I discovered I was wrong. Or maybe 'less correct' is a better way of putting it. D'oh! :)

Having said all of this, I'm now thinking we should have a moment in the campaign where one character pronounces it one way while another pronounces it the other way, to make everyone happy...or maybe that would just make EVERYONE cranky with us! :D

[kc_sword]

Originally posted by GR00V3R:

True. :)

Full disclosure: I personally pronounced it "prin-seps" until I had a conversation with someone at GW who casually pronounced it as "prin-keps". Yes, my mind was blown. Much research ensued, upon which I discovered I was wrong. Or maybe 'less correct' is a better way of putting it. D'oh! :)

Having said all of this, I'm now thinking we should have a moment uin the campaign where one character pronounces it one way while another pronounces it the other way, to make everyone happy...or maybe that would just make EVERYONE cranky with us! :D

This. SO MUCH THIS!

[Armoured Jerboa]

As some one who has studied latin it is pronounced Prin-K-eps

[ONDIER]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimm%27s_law

Man, people need an understanding of the most basic and straightforward linguistic concepts ever presented. Consonant shifts are a thing. If you're progressive, and English-speaking, crack open a soft C, you won't be judged.

If you're not, for the love of the Emperor, use those hard C's. It might be pushing it, but WH40K refers to their "Latin" as "Gothic". Now, if you have any education in historical linguistics, or know who the Goths were (Visi/Ostro), or have taken it upon yourself to become acquainted with a heavier Germanic language (heavier than English), like German or Dutch, even North-Germanic languages such as the Nordic family, and attempted to read the Wulfila translation of the Latin/Greek Bible, you will no doubt notice many loan words (especially from Latin), that have essentially be converted into a Gothic pronunciation.

With an understanding of a Germanic language (other than English, which has very strong ties to very modern Latin, post 1300 C.E.), or with an understanding of Old Frisian and Old Saxon (essentially the the old "Ænglisc", i.e. pre Norman invasion and settlement circa 1000 C.E., also partly to blame for English being "soft"), you will no doubt realise that older Latin dialects, as well as Gothic itself, were hard languages, making use of hard sounds.

If both Latin (older dialects, essentially what has been used in WH40K lore) and Gothic (the term used for WH40K "Latin", which also happens to be a very Nordic language, and the only East-Germanic language we know of) use hard C's i.e. "K", why would you use a "C" (when you already have an S for that role?). I believe it's a fallacy in management. I don't think most understand the origin of the WH40K Gothic, including voice actors. Also, I speak English as a secondary language, so I get the whole "read C, say S" thing, it's how modern English is spoken, and it makes sense, no hate, just thought I'd lay this down on the thread for reference.

[WereChicken]

Considering the words derived from it are pronounced with a C (Prince and principal being the most obvious) I'd say the C is a better fit if the rest of it is in English.

I mean it's the same as when something's translated from Japanese to English, Japanese language doesn't really distinguish the R and L sounds, yet when translated to English, even Japanese words that are just translated phonetically are usually pronounced with very clear R's and L's as otherwise that would sound weird to the English speaker.

[ONDIER]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Considering the words derived from it are pronounced with a C (Prince and principal being the most obvious) I'd say the C is a better fit if the rest of it is in English.

I mean it's the same as when something's translated from Japanese to English, Japanese language doesn't really distinguish the R and L sounds, yet when translated to English, even Japanese words that are just translated phonetically are usually pronounced with very clear R's and L's as otherwise that would sound weird to the English speaker.

Gothic in WH40K has no relationship with "English" in WH40K, as the Gothic is considered Holy and reserved for nomenclature of Imperial assets/units/stratagems, and Priests, so confining the Holy Tongue to English standards is silly, especially considering that this is the Adeptus Titanicus, not Titanisus, and we're dealing with the holiest relics of war known in the whole Imperium. :)

It's fine if a lowly Imperial Guard would use soft C's instead of the proper hard ones, but not pilots or crewmen of the holiest God Machines in the Adeptus Mechanicus (not mechanisus, or mesanisus, again, why go throught the trouble of pronouncing one word according to the true manner, ti-ta-ni-kus, but then saying "prinseps" and not "prinkeps"?

[ONDIER]

Originally posted by WereChicken:

Considering the words derived from it are pronounced with a C (Prince and principal being the most obvious) I'd say the C is a better fit if the rest of it is in English.

I mean it's the same as when something's translated from Japanese to English, Japanese language doesn't really distinguish the R and L sounds, yet when translated to English, even Japanese words that are just translated phonetically are usually pronounced with very clear R's and L's as otherwise that would sound weird to the English speaker.

Or is this Adeptus Titanisus: Dominus? :D