So, uh, I guess I'm never going to be able to play Endless Mode or Shuffle Mode...

[Ocelot]

To preface this, I own the game on PS4.

I'm pretty great at puzzlers, awesome a Tetris but struggle with Luminous and I hear you can only play Endless or Shuffle by beating Challenge Mode which is 100 levels and yeah, that isn't happening. So, half of my game is just locked away I'm guessing? Is there absolutely no other way to unlock Endless Mode? Seems slightly unfair.

[Kryssie]

All endless mode is, is challenge mode that doesn't end at lv100. It loops back around to Shinin. If you can't clear challenge then endless mode is pointless as it is exactly the same as challenge if you die before lv100.

I don't get this mentality a lot of gamers have these days of "the game must let me win/unlock everything" people who think that obviously didn't grow up on NES.

Instead of giving up how about a tip. Learn to abuse the L blocks that are 3 of one color and 1 of another.. You can drop the single color side on a matching single block that's sticking out and gravity drop the other half down to make a whole block and many other similar tricks.

This game is all about learning to abuse gravity which Tetris doesn't have. Also you can go extremely slow if your goal is simply to clear Challenge mode you don't have to spam blocks like crazy, only if you are going for the leader boards.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Kryssie:

I don't get this mentality a lot of gamers have these days of "the game must let me win/unlock everything" people who think that obviously didn't grow up on NES.

I did grow up on NES (and even earlier stuff) and I can understand it quite well. When one pays for something, shouldn't one be allowed to enjoy all of that something? Not everyone considering 'gitting gud' as fun.

Now there IS benefit in having some sort of unlock system (it helps with a game's longevity) but at the same time....why should one person get more content than another just because they are better?

The analogy isn't the greatest but I've seen it used a lot -- imagine if you could only watch the first quarter of a movie you bought until you answered some question correctly or whatever?

[Kryssie]

A movie isn't a game. Games are about overcoming challenges to get rewards. If you give all the rewards for no effort its no longer a game. (And they are no longer rewards.) You are not entitled to all the content a game has to offer if you can not rise to the games challenges.

"Gitting Gud" is effectively what gaming is about at its core. No, I am not saying everyone needs to be a super hardcore pro gamer, that's what different difficulties are for, but there should never be a mode in a game that just gives you everything if you don't even want to try. If you have that mentality you are NOT a gamer and should find another hobby, such as watching movies.

If the day ever comes where every game just holds your hand and says "YAY! You did it!" and then beats itself for you after you play for 5 min and die a few times, that will be the day gaming has officially died.

[Melodia]

Games are about having fun, and not everyone considers having to practise for hours and hours on end fun. Obviously I've not saying that a game should be what you're descrribing (which would make it not really a game at all) but at the same time it's pretty frustrating when you're locked out of an entire part of the game because you're bad at it (see for instance Pix the Cat, or Chime Sharp) -- there's a LOT of games I'm pretty bad at but still enjoy playing. I have no problems with cheating to unlock such things if I can. It doesn't lessen the enjoyment of what's there.

[Kryssie]

Ideally you should have fun playing games, but that is not what a game is about. A game contains a set of rules and win condition and generally a goal or goals. It offers rewards for attaining said win condition and or goals. Often that reward is simply personal satisfaction knowing you won or overcame a challenge. Sometimes its something to show off etc or a unlock or simply the next area/level.

There is literally NOTHING wrong with a game locking stuff behind difficult challenges. You can cheat to bypass them if you want but expecting the game to make all content available for everyone is simply stupid.

There is another element you are ignoring as well which is the other side of the fence, the people who work their butts off to unlock the genuinely hard challenges and content would get flipped the bird if the game was suddenly changed so everyone had access to that stuff for nothing.

If you want something and its difficult to obtain you work for it and then when you get it, it feels that much more satisfying. This is the feeling gamers chase and why games are typically fun because it triggers that reward center in your brain. If you aren't chasing that feeling I feel you are expecting games to be something they fundamentally are not.

I think it took me a good 6-12 months of playing Lumines before I was able to clear Lights back 15 years ago on the PSP. I was bad at the game but I stuck with it. When I finally got to Lights through all the struggle it was literally a religious experience for me. It cemented this game as one of the top 5 games of all time for me and why I still play it to this day.

I am still improving and struggling to get better, as I do in all games, always looking for the next challenge to overcome, or next way to improve myself. That is being a gamer.

[Ocelot]

Originally posted by Kryssie:

All endless mode is, is challenge mode that doesn't end at lv100. It loops back around to Shinin. If you can't clear challenge then endless mode is pointless as it is exactly the same as challenge if you die before lv100.

I don't get this mentality a lot of gamers have these days of "the game must let me win/unlock everything" people who think that obviously didn't grow up on NES.

Instead of giving up how about a tip. Learn to abuse the L blocks that are 3 of one color and 1 of another.. You can drop the single color side on a matching single block that's sticking out and gravity drop the other half down to make a whole block and many other similar tricks.

This game is all about learning to abuse gravity which Tetris doesn't have. Also you can go extremely slow if your goal is simply to clear Challenge mode you don't have to spam blocks like crazy, only if you are going for the leader boards.

I know what Endless mode is, I also know how to play Lumines. My point was it seems a bit lame to lock Endless behind a hurdle quite a few people won't overcome. (I've read enough posts similar to mine to be able to say this)

Originally posted by Kryssie:

That is being a gamer.

Playing video games is being a gamer. Thanks.

[twiigss]

Originally posted by Ocelot:

To preface this, I own the game on PS4.

I'm pretty great at puzzlers, awesome a Tetris but struggle with Luminous and I hear you can only play Endless or Shuffle by beating Challenge Mode which is 100 levels and yeah, that isn't happening. So, half of my game is just locked away I'm guessing? Is there absolutely no other way to unlock Endless Mode? Seems slightly unfair.

It's actually Challenge, and then Basic is the name of it. No, I don't think there's any other way to unlock Endless, other than beating Basic. When I first started playing Lumines, on the PS Vita, I couldn't get past level 3. Now that I've played it so much, I do much better. The hardest level for me is the green/white circles. The trick to beating that level, try to have a short stack and just let the blocks fall so you can concentrate on the best placement for blocks so you get clears.

I see it like this, "If there's 30 levels, and I can only make it to level 25, I'm not missing out on anything." Even if endless was unlocked from the start, I would keep dying on level 25. While I agree with you that, yea it sucks it's locked away, for me, playing Basic gives me something to work towards. "Oh I see endless mode is locked. Okay, I'll play the heck out of this game until I reach my goal - to unlock endless mode."

That's how I see it anyway. And even in endless mode, the only thing that is different, once you loop back to the first level, I noticed that the blocks keep falling fast. Like, it doesn't slow down. I saw a Lumines game on youtube, someone beat Basic in 55 minutes. I've unlocked every single mode, but since I saw that video, my new goal is to try to beat Basic in the same amount of time. I actually find myself playing Basic more than anything, even with Endless unlocked.

The thing about Lumines is, it's nothing like Tetris. You have to change your thinking. You have to picture in your mind where blocks are going to go, to create blocks for clears. When I first started playing, I watched the tutorial and other people play, but I never really fully understood it. It just takes time, and a lot of patience and just sticking with it. What helped me was taking my time when I played, and trying to see blocks. I grew up on Tetris, I'm used to horizontal lines. Well you have to get used to blocks with this game. It's tough, trust me. From time to time I still die early in game.

[Kryssie]

@twiigss Well said. Unfortunately I don't think the OP really cares about improving and is just here to complain.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Kryssie:

@twiigss Well said. Unfortunately I don't think the OP really cares about improving and is just here to complain.

Not everyone plays games to 'improve'. Some people play them to have fun.

[Kryssie]

Originally posted by Melodia:

Originally posted by Kryssie:

@twiigss Well said. Unfortunately I don't think the OP really cares about improving and is just here to complain.

Not everyone plays games to 'improve'. Some people play them to have fun.

Well, as I covered in my previous post. Basically every game is actually about improving. It presents challenges to overcome which you have to improve to pass. If you don't want to improve I can't imagine its that "fun" getting stuck in the same spot endlessly. Removing the challenges makes it no longer a game. So yes, ultimately, people play games to improve and pass challenges.

And, furthermore, in this case, improving is the only way the OP is going to get what they want.

[Melodia]

Originally posted by Kryssie:

Well, as I covered in my previous post. Basically every game is actually about improving. It presents challenges to overcome which you have to improve to pass. If you don't want to improve I can't imagine its that "fun" getting stuck in the same spot endlessly. Removing the challenges makes it no longer a game. So yes, ultimately, people play games to improve and pass challenges.

If that were true, then cheats would not have existed since the infancy of gaming. Cheat codes, Game Genies/Game Sharks/Pro Action Replays, console commands, trainers, Cheat Engine, etc etc etc.....a lot of people don't want to bother with gatekeeping a lot of games give, for various reasons.

[Ocelot]

Originally posted by Kryssie:

@twiigss Well said. Unfortunately I don't think the OP really cares about improving and is just here to complain.

Yeah, no, I'm not ''just here to complain'' but you can absolutely take your pompous attitude out of here, be my guest.

Also, I've completed some of the hardest games out there, have attained MANY personal achievements lots of people have in the Devil May Cry series (all s ranks in every mode, every game for just a small example) and have been playing puzzle games for most of my life. I'm absolutely no slouch to gaming, challenges, etc. However, I can WISH to simply have an Endless mode readily available if I want.

The fact that you seem as triggered as you are and as snobby as you are says a lot about you. You can leave, because I definitely don't wanna read posts that reek of elitist ♥♥♥♥.

[twiigss]

Originally posted by Ocelot:

Originally posted by Kryssie:

@twiigss Well said. Unfortunately I don't think the OP really cares about improving and is just here to complain.

I'm absolutely no slouch to gaming, challenges, etc. However, I can WISH to simply have an Endless mode readily available if I want.

I can see where you are coming from, but again from what I was saying in my original post, if there are 30 levels, and we keep dying on level 23 on Basic mode, even if we could play on Endless... we'd still keep dying on level 23.

I like having it this way, Endless mode locked, because it makes you think. "How could I best place these blocks to be more efficient or try to keep everything low, so that when I get to level 23, I'll have a low amount of blocks so I have a better chance at getting to level 24."

And that's the problem I kept having, so I completely understand you, but it wouldn't matter if endless is already unlocked and you can't get past level 23, if there are 30 levels. So I said to myself, "okay this gives me something to work at"

But, even with endless mode unlocked, it's like, "okay now I unlocked it, nothings changed" And I saw a youtube video of someone finishing Basic in 55 minutes. So ever since then, I've just been playing basic to try to reach that goal of 55 minutes.

[Ok Hello Garden]

as someone who has unlocked endless, i can say that there's no point in playing endless if you can't beat basic challenge, as it's the same game. the only reason endless exists is for players who are good enough to make it past level 100, which is why it's locked in the first place.

[JK_Original]

Just keep practicing assuming you'll hit a skill level that makes getting to level 100 a matter of minutes.