This game is so frustrating...

[Simonson [29th Ret.]]

It's a shame, but nothing can really be done about it. Basically every game I join is the same: Nobody communicating above "They're to the right of me." or "Defend x." or "Big group south."
It might as well be a battlefield server.

The whole point of this game is to effectively communicate, and yet, nobody does it. I told my squad lead today that we needed to find a place to set up a defensive position, and create a skirmish line covering the area. Silence was my response.

Most people only say a few words every couple minutes, and pretty unhelpful ones at that. In order to play this game effectively, you actually have to communicate. Like, constantly. When to move. What to shoot at. When to shoot. Precise orders to the squad. Precise call outs of enemy position. Precise markings on the map. Constant and precise communication regarding just about everything.

But instead we get shift + w toward ground that hasn't been recon'd, constant assaults that end in slaughter, and squad memebers all over the map. Nobody knows the first thing about infantry tactics. It's just frustrating because in order for people to play this game the way it was intended, they'd have to basically go through a boot camp and learn some discipline and proper protocol.

Nobody bulds FOBs. I run out of ammo more than I die, because I actually use WW2 infantry tactics when I play. Most people don't shoot unless they see the enemy, when in reality there were complex tactics used to draw enemy fire, pinpoint positions, suppress the enemy on the assault, and an array of other really interesting stuff that I was hoping to use in this game, but instead we get shift + w and zero squad cohesion.

I read the other day that in a fire fight, the infantryman was to fire his weapon in the general direction of the enemy, whether he saw them or not. The section commander gave orders to fire or cease, and if you recieved the order to fire, you would fire into likely enemy positions, whether they were there or not. The concept of a firefight is completely lose on the playerbase, who only shoot when they actually see the enemy. Otherwise, they hold fire until they are shot dead. This turns the game into a sniper style hogans alley, instead of a WW2 tactical shooter. If you were an effective infantryman, you should never be seen. You should always be in cover or concealed. In WW2 combat you would rarely see the person you were shooting at, you just knew they were in that direction, in that house, in that tree line, etc. Only on the assault would you actually see a person to shoot at, who was most likely cowering due to overwhelming fire coming from your side. You would only assualt once you had won the firefight.

It's nothing like this in game, which basically just makes it an arcade shooter with more walking and crappy spawn points. In other words: boring. Most of the time I'm just running around by myself, trying to get to the squad leader, who is also alone, and come under fire or die trying to reach him by some rambo who has inflitrated our lines because there is zero communication between squads, or even within squads.

Strangley Squad, while not perfect has a higher caliber of player even though the games are basically clones. I can find a decent squad leader and group in Squad. I've yet to come anywhere close in this game.

Not sure what I'm going to do about it...

[___FOKKER___]

Join me when i Sl buddeh, or MANY others who actually do their job (coms and movement etc). Maybe you were unlucky, as many of us, with a silent and incompetent SL who doesnt know what to do. On a sidenote; this game is new and many roles are not filled to perfection. I hope it will come to that though. I get your point, I really do.

Hint btw; add (good playing/communicating) guys from servers you`ve played with on steam or join a clan for more cohesive teamplay, as I did. Hope you keep playing this unfinished gem, you sound like the guy I want to play with;)

[IRDCAM]

The game has a high learning curve, and you are trying to change a behavior pattern well established in the gaming community. Communication is a primary skill, and for many reason, like a kid not yet having the ability to purchase a mic, some players try to communicate by written, too long situation changes, etc.

This game is not a run and gun game, simple things like an improper placed foward respawn point, or a failure to identify the 'squads' position for the respawned to find you is getting there, but will take time and we will be back to square 1 on release Aug 8th.

Game is in BETA, player base small, and people still learning....nature of the beast.

Oh and BTW fire disipline also entails firing to suppress or just to get the other side 'thinking' whether you have a target or not. Bullet splashes on the road means can't cross here to the bad guys, and recon by fire to get the bad guys to do something to expose themselves is also part of the equation. Old infantry addage..."If I were to shoot me here, where would I be to do that", you shoot there and guess what.......

[FarmForReal]

Its like this because the squad lead role has no functionality within their own squad. I don't need to communicate because squad lead doesn't need anything from me or my role. Only time I ever hear any comms in this game is when people are actively hunting armor or spawn trucks.

[___FOKKER___]

Escrito originalmente por Spilly Phil:

Its like this because the squad lead role has no functionality within their own squad. I don't need to communicate because squad lead doesn't need anything from me or my role. Only time I ever hear any comms in this game is when people are actively hunting armor or spawn trucks.

Then you`re doing it wrong, as well as your squadmembers... i.e; where is the enemie coming from and way more intell you need to relay to other Sl`s and th commander for arty etc. To name a few.

[FarmForReal]

You can literally place markers on the map and not say a word. And enemies only come from 2 directions, because there are 2 spawn trucks. You could put in a voice command menu and be just as effective. The game has the potential to be very dynamic, but as of now it is incredibly shallow.

[Ahab187]

Escrito originalmente por Spilly Phil:

You can literally place markers on the map and not say a word. And enemies only come from 2 directions, because there are 2 spawn trucks. You could put in a voice command menu and be just as effective. The game has the potential to be very dynamic, but as of now it is incredibly shallow.

If the enemy only comes from 2 directions because they move straight from the MSP to the objective, your enemies deserve to lose.
The problem isn't that the game isn't dynamic, it's that "the players" (the ones you played with anyway) need to be more inventive.

[talkslow4me]

As stated, and very well known already, this game has a high learning curve.

Not sure if the developers are taking a tough firm stance and dont want to implement additional ways to communicate, or they are working on it and will get around to it later.

I think the developers (and players) need to be reminded that we are looking at a flat screen, with limited graphics, and limited field of vision, and playing with players who didnt spend 30 weeks of basic an advanced training in the military. They didnt have a drill sgt 'smoke' them 18 hours a day, just to remind them that there is no self only the team.
Its soooo much easier to coordinate and be aware of everything in real life compared to video games. So yes I think they need to implement certain mechanics to help drive the overall objective of this game. Which is unit cohision and tactics.

Some of it I think is to blame on new players not understanding. But at the same time there is no help or guidance to make them understand.

[Case]

I would suggest either joining a clan or starting your own. Or building a friends list . You can add me, I use comms constantly ( I usually play as SL and kick noncompliant players )

[Uncle Bunkle Beard]

I disagree with the OP, communication is a balancing act. Talking too much can be just as bad if not worse. An effective SL should verbally describe what he wants his squad to achieve, update everyone on objectives as needed and the squad should report on their progress. It's as simple as that.

As the game stands, this isn't an easy task. It would be nice to be able to squelch the command channel so we can prioritise squad comms when needed and also great if the commander got his own channel so that SLs aren’t spamming comms all the time replying to him (if you’re lucky to have a commander that uses inter-squad chat at all).

Oh and this game isn’t a military simulator telling people when to shoot isn’t feasible, other than the odd time flanking and asking people to hold fire as to not give away a position. I wouldn’t class ordering your SL to find a place to set up a “defensive position”, as effective communication either. You were probably undermining him and I would think that was not well received and why you were ignored. Sounds to me like you’re as much of the problem as the rest of the people that play the game.

[Simonson [29th Ret.]]

" An effective SL should verbally describe what he wants his squad to achieve, update everyone on objectives as needed and the squad should report on their progress."

I agree with you to an extent, but most SLs just say "attack x", and that's it. What's the difference between that and what's already in the game? Everyone on the team is attacking "x", because that's the next objective.

This game would be so great if squads moved cohesively, doing proper recon, setting up skirmish lines, and actually engaging in firefights and proper assaults. There is no denying that it's very CoD at the moment.

There are mechanics that could enforce proper behavior, like screen vignetting (similar to the suppression effect) if you were more than 50m from a squad member, to represent the fear of a lack of cohesion that would occur irl.

Edit: A mechanic like this would be great for the game imo, people would freak out if they saw their screens getting dark, and call out for teammates and cohesion. Unfortunately it's way too late in the development cycle for something this. It would also probably piss people off and make the title into niche game, even more than it is.

[Ahab187]

Escrito originalmente por Uncle Bunkle Beard:

I disagree with the OP, communication is a balancing act. Talking too much can be just as bad if not worse. An effective SL should verbally describe what he wants his squad to achieve, update everyone on objectives as needed and the squad should report on their progress. It's as simple as that.

This is true. Some SLs are overly enthusiastic in my opinion. This morning I had an SL shouting things like "go go go move move move" and stuff like that in an everlasting avalanche, next to giving orders.
Very confusing and, among other things, making you incapable of hearing the direction of and discerning friendly and enemy fire.

[Herr Morlock]

In my oppinion, there are three main types of gamers in games like PS.

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1.) The steroid guy: (STEROID-GUY)
Always wanting action (and often enough, quite good in such stuff), unable to sit still for a calm minute and, like an actual ADHD kid, never able to wait for the rest of the squad spawning on the same location, because he could miss some action by that...

In his heart: a lone wolf with dreams of honour and recognition of his fighting skills.

2.) The hardcore-please-drill-me-like-Gunnery-Sgt.-Hartman-realism-nerd: (DRILL-GUY)
That guy wants realism, only for the sake of it. He is not afraid of waiting for dozens of minutes for orders or traveling (in concealement) behind enemy lines, only to have one lousy chance of about 30secs to strike down with furious success, or maybe perish in vain.

In his heart: a loyal team player with dreams of recognition because of his devotion to the team.

3.) The game-style-opportunist: (FUN-GUY)
He is the main protagonist on our servers. He likes action and dislikes idle waiting. If he realizes that his SL knows what he wants and knows how to make the "carrot-and-stick-approach" work for their squad, he is able to be surprising tolerant about idle waiting times and has a lot of fun with the squad...
But if he realizes, he's got some quite unexperienced SL in his squad, or if the tactics of the SL are unsuccessful, he doesn't hesitate to ♥♥♥♥ to lone-wolf-mode, at least after a while...

In his heart: just wants to have fun

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It would make things so much easier, if we all would think about it and classify ourselves in one of those gamer types, at best before we post or answer stuff.
After all, what makes fun for the drill-guy, may be boring as hell for the steroid-guy...

A whole lot of discussion are getting flamed, not because our oppinions are wrong or right, but because we fail to realize that we all are different and some of us, may never agree with some of us. Because we enjoy games in a completely different way.

PS: I lost myself a bit...
I wanted to say, that you will never have the chance to actually find unerringly gamers of your kind, if the developers (or we do it ourselves) don't help in organizing the different kinds of gamers. The developers could include some function to add friends to a friends list, and being able to see, on which server, they are playing at the moment and such. Or even, eventually, add the possibility so see which players are playing on a server BEFORE joining it...
WE could take about the gamer-styles and classify ourselves and communicate about it. If the SL tells you, hey sorry, no STEROID-guys here or no DRILL-guys here, it would help you to understand that an other squad may fit you better... Instead of just getting kicked, without ANY explanation...

[Sunshine]

Escrito originalmente por Spilly Phil:

Its like this because the squad lead role has no functionality within their own squad. I don't need to communicate because squad lead doesn't need anything from me or my role. Only time I ever hear any comms in this game is when people are actively hunting armor or spawn trucks.

...just how stupid do you have to be to really believe this...

[Simonson [29th Ret.]]

I don't know which gamer type category I'd fall into, (possibly 2), but I'd like to be a part of a squad that communicates well, and achieves victory through superior tactics that are more than just "run and gun". I'd like to break out of a pin by having a fellow fire team put effective fire on the enemy mg, allowing us to retreat after popping smoke, etc.

I just want to be a part of an authentic WW2 experience, which I believe is the common thread among most of the players here.

[Herr Morlock]

Escrito originalmente por No Limit Soldier:

I don't know which gamer type category I'd fall into, (possibly 2), but I'd like to be a part of a squad that communicates well, and achieves victory through superior tactics that are more than just "run and gun". I'd like to break out of a pin by having a fellow fire team put effective fire on the enemy mg, allowing us to retreat after popping smoke, etc.

I just want to be a part of an authentic WW2 experience, which I believe is the common thread among most of the players here.

I myself, categorize myself, for sure, as a DRILL-guy, too.
Sometimes it is hard to have fun, for my kind, on the servers. I agree with you in that.

But sometimes a good SL takes some DRILL- and some FUN-guys and weld them together as a memorable and most fun experience for both groups...
The fun IS there. We just need some method to find it, in a much more easier way.

Maybe the elitism of some of this community is a big part of the problem, I fear.
All STEROID-gamers (and I think, there are not just a few of them in this game) get ragespeech as soon as they say something is this forum. I understand that, though. But it is unlucky for all of us.

Maybe it would help, if we would have some STEROIDs-servers, and some for the DRILLs...

Just my two cents.
The current way kinda spoils the game a bit for both sides.