Is this Startopia the remaster or a new Startopia sequel?

[Froz7y]

^

[Kunovega]

There is no startopia remaster. There is no startopia sequel.

This is a game from a completely different company that simply borrows the name and uses a similar gameplay style, it is not using any copyright material from the original startopia and has nothing to do with it as a franchise.

This is "inspired by" startopia, but from a completely different company doing their own thing.

[dorianmode]

What Kunovega said, but note the gameplay in general is very recognisable if you have played Startopia before. A bit like the similarity between Rollercoaster Tycoon and Planet Coaster, Harvest Moon and Stardew Valley or maybe between Theme Hospital and Two Point Hospital.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by dorianmode:

What Kunovega said, but note the gameplay in general is very recognisable if you have played Startopia before. A bit like the similarity between Rollercoaster Tycoon and Planet Coaster, Harvest Moon and Stardew Valley or maybe between Theme Hospital and Two Point Hospital.

Two Point Hospital is very similar to Theme Hospital yes, but it's also made by many of the same developers who formed a new studio together and is intentionally being a modernized version of it.

Planet Coaster however is more of a simulation than it is a tycoon game. And doesn't feel much like Rollercoaster Tycoon to me, which had much broader management and tycoon layers.

[Saviliana]

So it is Startopia Remake. Good, cause I hate the old 16bit runtime error.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Saviliana:

So it is Startopia Remake. Good, cause I hate the old 16bit runtime error.

That's not really what that word means, because it's not a remake either. That would imply they are trying to make the same game and would be allowed to use the same copyright assets.

Since this question seems to confuse so many people, let's go over some of these words:

Rerelease

Rereleases are simple. They are the same game released again. All of those Game of the Year editions? Those are rereleases. Sometimes rereleases will come with new content

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game

Rebalance

Rebalances are a rerelease of a game, but with new content specifically meant to refine the experience of the first game. Sometimes these are bug fixes but most of the time these are thorough balance reworks. These were very common in fighting games in the era of Street Fighter II, where a million new editions of the same game would come out, each with a few new pieces of content along with a major rebalancing update.

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game

Port

They are a rerelease of a game to a new platform.

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game

Remaster

The focus of any remaster is presentation. They seek to update the graphics and sound of any older game. Remasters will present the player with smoother textures, updated models, re-recorded voice tracks, new soundtracks, and more. They are also usually intergeneration ports

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same games code being remastered

Retranslation

Every so often a game will be rereleased with a brand-new script. The gameplay stays the same, and sometimes even the graphics stay the same, but the text, and in modern cases the voice actors, are completely different. This is a rescript, or as we more commonly call them, a retranslation

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game

Remake

In these games the general plot, characters, setting, etc. from the original game are retained, and the general idea of the gameplay from the original is retained as well, but everything is rebuilt from the ground up. That means new assets, new control schemes, maybe some new content, new rebalancing, so on so forth.

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game being remade and no characters or plot is retained, no copyright material is being used or shared between these games

Reimagining

If the script and plot is basically the same, but with new actors, it’s a remake. If it’s different, then it’s a reimagining or an adaptation. In short, reimaginings are the original property, but with a “what if” thrown in. What if this element of the story were different? What if this character were different?

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game being remade and no characters or plot is retained, no copyright material is being used or shared between these games


Reboot

Reboots throw out, well basically everything except the basic concept of the original IP. Sometimes they will reuse names or familiar elements of the original story, but for the most part you are getting something completely new.

^Well it's not this, because it's not the same game being remade and no characters or plot is retained, no copyright material is being used or shared between these games

----
This is just a game inspired by the original being made by a completely different company. They may be similar in formula, but otherwise have nothing in common. This isn't remastering the original, it's not remaking the original, it's not rebooting the original, it's taking inspiration from it and making something new from a completely different company and without licensing it.

Is Call of Duty a remake of Wolfenstein? Is Quake a remake of Doom? Is Dragon Quest a remake of Final Fantasy? Is Dungeons a remake of Dungeon Keeper?

A game having similar game play elements but using completely different copyright elements to build something new and from a different company is not a remake.

And before you harp on the word "Startopia" what about "Spacebase" because this is also not a remake/remaster/whatever of Spacebase DF9 either.

Is Pepsi a remake of Coke just because they are both a cola? No

Is Rimworld a remake of Dwarf Fortress? No

The only thing at issue here is the use of the word Startopia, and it's pretty clear Kalypso got the trademark rights for "Spacebase Startopia" around 2017 when "Startopia" was owned by Square-Enix who either approved use the word or simply didn't care enough to challenge the trademark.

In contrast, the elements within the game itself that are copyright protected, were not transferred over.

Since then the rights to Startopia have reverted to one of its original creators, Square-Enix is no longer involved, but whether he can challenge the trademark or not is between him and the courts. Considering the trademark had not been in use for years and the owners of said trademark didn't challenge it at the time that the new variation was created, it's a legal grey area but would likely be won by Kalypso simply because trademarks require active use and active protection or they are forfeit anyway.

Copyright on the other hand is automatic. The games will remain distinct due to copyright protections.

Beyond that they are two distinct games using similar mechanics and sharing just one word that might be a trademark issue (and only if the trademark owners feel like arguing over it)

[dorianmode]

Originally posted by Saviliana:

So it is Startopia Remake. Good, cause I hate the old 16bit runtime error.

Basically yes, despite Kunovega's nitpicking over unimportant technical details.

No, they won't play exactly the same and the style and humour and focus of gameplay and missions is a bit different, but broadly there's a good chance it will scratch the same itch.

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Planet Coaster however is more of a simulation than it is a tycoon game. And doesn't feel much like Rollercoaster Tycoon to me, which had much broader management and tycoon layers.

This is literally the point I was trying to make - thank you for repeating it for some reason.
Different is not same; neither are Startopia and SBST identical; my analogy holds.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by dorianmode:

Originally posted by Saviliana:

So it is Startopia Remake. Good, cause I hate the old 16bit runtime error.

Basically yes, despite Kunovega's nitpicking over unimportant technical details.

No, they won't play exactly the same and the style and humour and focus of gameplay and missions is a bit different, but broadly there's a good chance it will scratch the same itch.

Originally posted by Kunovega:

Planet Coaster however is more of a simulation than it is a tycoon game. And doesn't feel much like Rollercoaster Tycoon to me, which had much broader management and tycoon layers.

This is literally the point I was trying to make - thank you for repeating it for some reason.
Different is not same; neither are Startopia and SBST identical; my analogy holds.

No, because a remake implies using the same story template and IP material to build the same game again from scratch, which is not happening here.

There's no shared copyright material between them. Unless you are going to claim that every first person shooter is a remake of the original first person shooter, your analogy is just plain wrong.

Being inspired by something is not the same as remaking that something.

[dorianmode]

You're just repeating yourself now. What you have said may be true - it is also irrelevant.

Game is game. Exact ownership of the intellectual property isn't going to change how it plays. But by all means continue to nitpick over the exact meanings of words that make zero difference to the gameplay experience.

I'm already thrilled at the prospect.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by dorianmode:

You're just repeating yourself now. What you have said may be true - it is also irrelevant.

Game is game. Exact ownership of the intellectual property isn't going to change how it plays. But by all means continue to nitpick over the exact meanings of words that make zero difference to the gameplay experience.

I'm already thrilled at the prospect.

It's relevant to people who keep asking these questions.

Whether you enjoy the game or not has nothing to do with answering this threads question.

[Dybanne]

Thanks Dorianmode, exactly what I came here to ask about.
Sorry Kuro, but you're talking semantics and it comes across as mainly for legality purposes.

A 3 tiered (split into industrial, pleasure and biodome) base building, management game set on a circular space station where you are an AI purposed to be successful in business dealing specifically with different races of aliens who have unique purposes in game.

It's a sequel/spiritual successor but a different game entirely for legal purposes.

I'm all here for it, startopia was a brilliant game and i'm so happy that something like this has come along.

[Kunovega]

It's a sequel/spiritual successor but a different game entirely for legal purposes.

Drop the sequel part and you are saying what I've been saying, which means you would agree with me.

Sequel however is not accurate, it's not continuing the story.

It's a legally distinct game inspired by the other, it's fair to say they would like to be a spiritual successor. I've been saying that every time.

[Dybanne]

Sequel doesn't always mean continuation of story.

We're not really saying the same thing here, even if it appears like that on the surface Kunovega.

You're coming across as putting the original down by trying to distance this from it. You use technicalities and specific wording to take away from the fact that this is so heavily "inspired" by the original that it could not exist without it. I'm not taking away from the work this version needed, but everything was there for them before they began.

It's a different town, different people playing it, and a different ball but they're still playing the same game of football. If you want it to be a different game then it requires bigger changes.

I liked the original and I presume I'll like this solely on the work of the original. I also expect this to build on mechanics and other aspects of the original game as sequels/successors should.

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by Dybanne:

Sequel doesn't always mean continuation of story.

We're not really saying the same thing here, even if it appears like that on the surface Kunovega.

You're coming across as putting the original down by trying to distance this from it. You use technicalities and specific wording to take away from the fact that this is so heavily "inspired" by the original that it could not exist without it. I'm not taking away from the work this version needed, but everything was there for them before they began.

It's a different town, different people playing it, and a different ball but they're still playing the same game of football. If you want it to be a different game then it requires bigger changes.

I liked the original and I presume I'll like this solely on the work of the original. I also expect this to build on mechanics and other aspects of the original game as sequels/successors should.

Nothing I said disparaged the original.

I simply made it clear they are legally distinct.

You have people asking for discounts on this due to owning the original, or asking why certain characters and alien types aren't in this. People expecting this to be a remake or direct sequel will be wildly disappointed.

Embrace this as a distinct game that is just inspired by the original and you can love both as their own games, regardless of what elements they do or don't share.

[theorist_pl]

so they just bought franchise, make gameplay as simillar as possible and relesed it compatibile with new OS. Good for me because original startopia is 20- years old,, and there are not so much space station sim out there

[Kunovega]

Originally posted by theorist_pl:

so they just bought franchise, make gameplay as simillar as possible and relesed it compatibile with new OS. Good for me because original startopia is 20- years old,, and there are not so much space station sim out there

They did not buy the franchise. They have no legal connection with the original in any way at all.

This is the point I keep trying to get across. This is not the same franchise, it is not the same copyright material, it does not share copyright franchise material between them.

Imagine you are comparing Battlefield 1942 ((2002) Digital Illusions) against Call of Duty ((2003) Infinity Ward) they are both FPS games, you could claim that one is a spiritual successor to the other, but they are not the same franchise, they are not sequels, they weren't from the same company, they didn't license anything from each other, they share only some basic design and game play elements that can't be protected. One is not a sequel to the other and is not in the same franchise.

The original Startopia is owned by one of the original developers after its contract with square enix ended, he has stated clearly and so has this new games developers that they have nothing to do with each other aside from being inspired to make a similar game that is legally distinct.

Just like two companies can make FPS games about war, two companies can make space station management games.

The word spacebase is common and not protected, and the word Startopia is a trademark issue, but trademarks can't even be protected if they aren't being used. If the trademark on the word lapsed or if this company got approval from square enix to use the word, either way that is the only thing they share between them, a single word in the title.

With no franchise rights shared and no copyright material being used, this is just like anyone making a similar game in a genre to one that already exists.

The only thing that makes this unique is that there are fewer spacestation management games. If this was just another FPS clone no one would be trying to pretend it was a sequel to some other franchise if it actually wasn't.

Are you confused by the name? That's exactly what they were hoping.

They did the same thing with Dungeons, it's "inspired by" Dungeon Keeper, but it's also not the same franchise and shares no copyright material between them, even if both are dungeon management games. But Dungeon(s) isn't a trademarked word.

Is Dungeons a good game? Sure, but it's not Dungeon Keeper.

Will Spacebase Startopia be a good game? I hope so, I have nothing against Realmforge, I actually like them as a developer. I also like the original Startopia. I just recognize that they are in fact different developers, different franchises, different attempts at making something in a similar style within a genre that gets very little attention; but they are still distinct from each other.

It's just that simple and no reason to try and pretend otherwise.