I'm confuzzled

[Black Captain]

Something about needing a key.... I'm genuinely stuck and it really sucks that there's not hints in this game. I'm evening trying to kill the trolls and hold for a prayer...[i.imgur.com]

[Black Captain]

After reading the other threads, I've found the location. I wish I had marked it on my map b/c I couldn't find where other water blobs were.

But I can say the devs are some sick people. This rock throwing puzzles suck especially with no rock refills nearby. I don't want to use assists, but the aiming and moving is terrible in this game. I feel like the assist is a cop out for the poor design with the mandatory perfect aiming a rock while moving puzzles.

Also, assuming that I was to progress further in the pink area (the secret route), it shouldn't have been a "secret room" and should have been clearly marked as a route to take on the map. It's not indicated as such and therefore, if you don't mark that you should return to that area once you get ice pip, you wouldn't think to check back there.

[TemmieNeko]

Originally posted by DuWryght:

After reading the other threads, I've found the location. I wish I had marked it on my map b/c I couldn't find where other water blobs were.

But I can say the devs are some sick people. This rock throwing puzzles suck especially with no rock refills nearby. I don't want to use assists, but the aiming and moving is terrible in this game. I feel like the assist is a cop out for the poor design with the mandatory perfect aiming a rock while moving puzzles.

Also, assuming that I was to progress further in the pink area (the secret route), it shouldn't have been a "secret room" and should have been clearly marked as a route to take on the map. It's not indicated as such and therefore, if you don't mark that you should return to that area once you get ice pip, you wouldn't think to check back there.

how are you even playing this?
to call the devs sick, is pretty rude - Blob is one of the NICEST devs on the platform, and helps literally EVERYONE, the dude even goes as far as to send a complete map to ppl, and help them find every insignificant ( and significant ) thing in the game.
there's no poor design, the guy put WAY too much thought into puzzles; which isn't a bad thing all the time. BUt sometimes the answer is easier than you think, and perhaps you are over-thinking it.
if you play on controller, you can easily aim with the stick and jump with shoulder buttons to throw rocks easily.
you can find numerous rock upgrades for your pouch throughout the game, and when a puzzle requires it for progress - you ALWAYS find the throwable object close by. without exception.

if you found a place that doesnt, it's not the path forward, it's a secret room puzzle you found. " secret room " just being secret areas.

[Black Captain]

...wow the white knighting is outrageous. Just lower your blood pressure a little bit as 1) it's an opinion (a sarcastic one at that [note, that being a sick dev on making tough puzzles isn't necessarily a bad thing, but makes for a difficult user experience for some players]) and 2) they can use the feedback as I've seen a recurring them on about aiming and people being lost.

In any event, I believe I've found the right path, but my feedback still stands. Seriously, the secret route to basically another half of the pink level shouldn't have been a secret.

[farcquito]

I'm surprised about your feedback. I didn't use assists and I didn't have problems with the aiming and moving, I felt it comfortable, not too different to other games I've played.

I don't agree neither with your thoughts about the secret area, in all metroidvanias I've played you have to mark/remember places, look for secret places (even secrets that are needed for the main story), you need to go back and explore everything again, etc. At least all metroidvanias I've played, you need to go back when you have a new skill to see where you can use it to unlock new places.

Maybe you are not very used to this kind of games, because you are complaining about things that are very common in this kind of games.

[Black Captain]

Originally posted by DuWryght:

...wow the white knighting is outrageous. Just lower your blood pressure a little bit

(Sigh). It's like saying Black Lives Matter at a Trump rally here...

I do agree with the having to remember and I can see the devs went the traditional route of few to no indicators for areas to backtrack on the map. But, the looking for what you might have missed is the nauseating tedium that made the original Metroid a nightmare for many players. But it's like they didn't find the middleground between guidance and solitude. Some areas clearly mark the paths forward when it comes to progressing the game. All of the progression is linked to some ability. However, this 1 particular case didn't have an indicator on the map and, again, if you, the player, didn't note it on your map, you better strap in for hours of tedious backtracking. I would have been fine with that if there the majority of the game the block paths weren't always indicated on the map as a path you didn't get through.

I haven't found all the map pieces, but seeing as they are more like a nifty reward to diligent players that probably don't need it, the lay player is going to have to indicate what's what on their own. I am suggesting either they clearly indicate the necessary, no secret paths (which I'm sure they do in every other scenario) or provide an assist or hint npc. I mean, otherwise they could go Dark Souls and give you no help at all. I wouldn't mind that either, but they didn't commit to that extreme.

[blob]

There's actually 2 maps indicating this particular passage ( one in darkcross, one in polyandrium). Twigs does mention in a convo you should mark stuff on your maps, this is a game about literally being thrown in the dark with a map that lets your annotate each room :p
As farcquito mentionned a core part of metroidvania is about coming back to rediscover earlier areas though I've tried to keep it at a minimum here with teleportation unlocked after 1 hour and plenty of fast travel spots.
Not sure what rock throwing puzzle is the issue but they most likely are optional?

But yeah, this is not a game that will hold your hand. Throw pip around to look for weird stuff and put notes on your map. Dont be afraid to activate slow mo throwing in the assists if it makes the game more fun for you! That literally why we spent time coding it and implementing it: To give players an experience that match their taste!

[DrSkipper]

Just wanna say it's ok to be stuck and the feedback is helpful regardless!

[Black Captain]

As an update from having completed the game. I would suggest that finishing off a certain ally... you have an option/dialogue boss that pops up that provides the option. It's a nice gesture for anyone that doesn't know what they are doing and the impact it likely makes on the game. I speak hypothetically because I do even really know that characters story and they just randomly show up towards the end like you know who they are.

I got ending B and I didn't feel compelled to try for more. The devs did a great job making this game very puzzling. It deserves a puzzle tag b/c I've never played a metriodvania this challenging in terms of puzzles and figuring out wear to return to or how to find access to what.

I'd say the average player is probably going to need assists. There's a lot of information on the screen in the later fights and a marathon boss and ending sequence. I doubt stat levels will really matter, but lowering the damage you take and using the aiming slow-mo makes content more do-able.

I recommended the game on my channel but warned that this isn't an easy play for anyone other than seasoned Mvania players and/or puzzle solvers.

[DrSkipper]

Thank you! It's a difficult game yeah, and much more puzzle oriented than a lot of metroidvanias definitely! Really glad we decided to add the assists before release haha :) Hope players feel free to try them out if they're having trouble.

[blob]

Yeah we tried to make it really clear everywhere this is a puzzle game but everyone keeps being surprised because its hard to show how it works with the screenshots or trailer. :p