Has anyone else solved Metathesis that way?

[Chocos Ramabotti]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SufkG_VqPU

I know the official solution, but this one is faster and still not a cheese I suppose? I mean at least I though hard about this even if I didn't find the intended way. D:

[Tsunero]

I could never figure out the intended solution for this one...so I got creative. (without looking it up)

I accidentally discovered you can sneak out a connector from Puzzle 7. (not sure if intended by the devs or not, although by the nature of the exit it looked intended to me)

Using another puzzle (the one with the opened secondary exit once you solve it, and some positioning trial and error for like 30 mins, I got it)

https://i.imgur.com/mcxlUv7.jpeg

Was great fun and now I am carrying that extra connector everywhere LOL.

[Koh]

I didn't solve it this way either, I found that the blue switch, you can hit it from the other side of the gate(the one you have to go through) with the 4th connector.

[kablahrz]

This is how I solved it, initially, but just two more blocking connections from the main "green" RGB converter would eliminate the timing factor, having to grab the connector during the brief window the barrier is disabled, before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier restored. (prior thread)

The main difference between your video and my approach is that you scurry back into the main area before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier re-enabled. Where I opted for the ladder.

---

To be clear, the above is how I solved it on my second play-through, having verified that my "solve" on my first play-through, same as described by @Koh...

Originally posted by Koh:

I didn't solve it this way either, I found that the blue switch, you can hit it from the other side of the gate(the one you have to go through) with the 4th connector.

... wasn't "legit."

[kablahrz]

Originally posted by Tsunero:

you can sneak out a connector

All of the Abyss puzzles are self-contained, can be solved with the tools provided within the puzzle.

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by kablahrz:

This is how I solved it, initially, but just two more blocking connections from the main "green" RGB converter would eliminate the timing factor, having to grab the connector during the brief window the barrier is disabled, before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier restored. (prior thread)

The main difference between your video and my approach is that you scurry back into the main area before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier re-enabled. Where I opted for the ladder.

Oh yeah I think this was the intended solution you describe...? Basically the first converter blocking itself off from the main power sources, once it's powered on, being now provided with energy from the other 2 converters making it "second tier" by itself in the power source hierarchy, while on my approach the main power source is cutting off his own lasers so the converter behind the door could reach the main power sources at a brief period of time considering how the priority of power consumption works.

It's really fascinating how deep the game stresses the laser component, even more than Road to Gehenna of the first game, ocasionally it seems like you're building circuits.

To be clear, the above is how I solved it on my second play-through, having verified that my "solve" on my first play-through, same as described by @Koh...

Originally posted by Koh:

I didn't solve it this way either, I found that the blue switch, you can hit it from the other side of the gate(the one you have to go through) with the 4th connector.

That was my first solution too, though it definitely felt wrong so I was curious for what could only be the intended solution. It's unfortunate cause I think it's natural to try that out first.
I hope they patch it out eventually, cause I realized you could cheese several Into the Abyss puzzles that way, robbing you out of the satisfaction of the moment of epiphany.
(I have nothing against several solutions, but I think it should involve some brain work fitting to the puzzles difficulty)

[Tsunero]

Originally posted by kablahrz:

Originally posted by Tsunero:

you can sneak out a connector

All of the Abyss puzzles are self-contained, can be solved with the tools provided within the puzzle.

I know, I just got burnt out from all the laser stuff from Orpheus already...so I was like "heck yes" I'll use this sneaky connector for as long as I can here.

"Breaking" a puzzle is a puzzle on its own way and at least it gives more variety.

[kablahrz]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

Originally posted by kablahrz:

This is how I solved it, initially, but just two more blocking connections from the main "green" RGB converter would eliminate the timing factor, having to grab the connector during the brief window the barrier is disabled, before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier restored. (prior thread)

The main difference between your video and my approach is that you scurry back into the main area before the lasers are disrupted and the barrier re-enabled. Where I opted for the ladder.

Oh yeah I think this was the intended solution you describe...? Basically the first converter blocking itself off from the main power sources, once it's powered on, being now provided with energy from the other 2 converters making it "second tier" by itself in the power source hierarchy,

That doesn't sound like what I tried to describe.

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

while on my approach the main power source is cutting off his own lasers so the converter behind the door could reach the main power sources at a brief period of time considering how the priority of power consumption works.

See the "prior thread" link. It describes essentially the same approach as your video, with a couple tweaks; but effectively an identical solution minus any timing factors.

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

It's really fascinating how deep the game stresses the laser component, even more than Road to Gehenna of the first game, ocasionally it seems like you're building circuits.

They certainly responded to the criticism of too few laser puzzles and lack of difficulty in the TTP2 base game.

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

I hope they patch it out eventually, cause I realized you could cheese several Into the Abyss puzzles that way, robbing you out of the satisfaction of the moment of epiphany. (I have nothing against several solutions, but I think it should involve some brain work fitting to the puzzles difficulty)

Agreed. Seems like the "just inside the barrier" solve could be remedied with a simple laser angle check. The ~1 second delay in laser disruption also allows for some timing-related unintended solutions. (To be fair, given at least one other puzzle in the DLC is dependent on the ~1 second laser disruption delay [see Clockwise], it would be difficult to argue that the OP sol'n isn't legit.)

[kablahrz]

Originally posted by Tsunero:

"Breaking" a puzzle is a puzzle on its own way and at least it gives more variety.

There were some seriously gaping holes in some puzzles, so much so that I similarly thought that it must have been intended ... but in retrospect it just looks like the product wasn't 100% ready for primetime, but product managers have their deadlines and peeps have gotta get paid. Abyss-9, Color Theory had some particularly large holes, almost doorways, for tool export/import.

[eyedunno11]

Originally posted by Chocos Ramabotti:

I know the official solution, but this one is faster and still not a cheese I suppose? I mean at least I though hard about this even if I didn't find the intended way. D:

I was expecting cheese, but no, you just did it efficiently. The "solutions" where they don't take advantage of the side receivers and the pickup timing is like a couple of frames are the ones I consider cheese.

[Draco18s]

I'm 99% sure that this is the intended solution, or at least intended-adjacent. I broke the puzzle by sneaking a connector through the door it was holding open.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/835960/discussions/1/4410795727365870787/

[SgtFopper™]

Originally posted by Tsunero:

I could never figure out the intended solution for this one...so I got creative. (without looking it up)

I accidentally discovered you can sneak out a connector from Puzzle 7. (not sure if intended by the devs or not, although by the nature of the exit it looked intended to me)

Not just from puzzle #7. You can also even can get 2x color changers, 1x connector and a cube out of puzzle #13. There's a ladder in the area und behind the wall of the ladder you can stack two cubes and if you use the ladder, you will land on the second (the stacked) cube. And from there you can get out the connectors and leave the area. Have fun! ;-)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3288621614

[Chocos Ramabotti]

Originally posted by SgtFopper™:

Originally posted by Tsunero:

I could never figure out the intended solution for this one...so I got creative. (without looking it up)

I accidentally discovered you can sneak out a connector from Puzzle 7. (not sure if intended by the devs or not, although by the nature of the exit it looked intended to me)

Not just from puzzle #7. You can also even can get 2x color changers, 1x connector and a cube out of puzzle #13. There's a ladder in the area und behind the wall of the ladder you can stack two cubes and if you use the ladder, you will land on the second (the stacked) cube. And from there you can get out the connectors and leave the area. Have fun! ;-)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3288621614

That is quite fascinating. Though I have to say even without smuggling items for almost every puzzle after the first 8 I found a cheese solution. If I recount I found a cheese for:

9, 10, 11, 12( I'm not sure if there is cheese or the puzzle is just supposed to be THAT simple ?) 14(if you put down a second reverser on the switch you can keep it pressed without it autolocking on the middle of the switch) 16

Though of course I try to solve them uncheesed as well, i'm not sure but for the most part I encounter cheese not because I think outside of the box, but because I just try to solve an obstacle for the puzzle in the most direct way. Usually I try the most simple and obvious things first, expecting that they don't work.

[Tsunero]

Originally posted by SgtFopper™:

Originally posted by Tsunero:

I could never figure out the intended solution for this one...so I got creative. (without looking it up)

I accidentally discovered you can sneak out a connector from Puzzle 7. (not sure if intended by the devs or not, although by the nature of the exit it looked intended to me)

Not just from puzzle #7. You can also even can get 2x color changers, 1x connector and a cube out of puzzle #13. There's a ladder in the area und behind the wall of the ladder you can stack two cubes and if you use the ladder, you will land on the second (the stacked) cube. And from there you can get out the connectors and leave the area. Have fun! ;-)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3288621614

Woah that's amazing, thanks!

[eyedunno11]

Originally posted by kablahrz:

See the "prior thread" link. It describes essentially the same approach as your video, with a couple tweaks; but effectively an identical solution minus any timing factors.

I didn't really understand the description in that other thread, so I decided to mess around a bit and see if I could figure it out. Here it is, I think, in two screenshots, with my thoughts on the various solutions.

https://imgur.com/a/FnigixK

Here's how I feel about the three solutions .

1) Not using the side receivers for cutoffs at all - Timing-dependent to a degree where I consider it outright cheese.
2) Using only the side receivers for cutoffs - Timing-dependent, but not in a way that requires lightning-fast reflexes, and consistent with TTP1 rules (as seen in Temporal Solution in RtG).
3) Using the side receivers and the front receivers for cutoffs - Not timing-dependent, but the instant reestablishment of connections violates TTP1 rules. Uses the same mechanic seen in Rerouting in the TTP2 base game and Fragile Balance in ItA.

Still kinda cool that there are these three solutions that sort of use different mechanics, but only one of them feels really good to me, unlike, say, Unexpected Outcomes, where every solution I've seen feels good to me.