Bigger game than the original game + Road to Gehenna?

[Porphyrios]

I recently watched interview from developers on YouTube and I heard developers saying The Talos Principle 2 is a bigger game than the original. I put this to a test by making a papersheet on which I wrote things like how many puzzles etc. the games include. I spoiler tag because they may include some spoilers.

The Talos Principle 1: An introduction puzzle 1, Main puzzles 90, Star Puzzles 30, Star World Puzzles 6, Tower Puzzles 5, Sigil Puzzles 8.

The Talos Principle DLC Road to Gehenna: Main Puzzles 17, Star Puzzles 16, Free Admin Puzzles 7, Grey Sigil Puzzle 1.

The Talos Principle 2: Main Puzzles 96, Star Puzzles 24, Lost Puzzles 24, Gold Puzzles 12, an introduction puzzle for Utopia/Dystopia 1, Utopia Puzzles 4, Dystopia Puzzles 4.

The Talos Principle 1 and its DLC Road to Gehenna have a lot of secrets and Easter eggs to be discovered.

The Talos Principle 2 has barely any secrets and Easter eggs as they were in the original game.

I was kind of disappointed by the fact that there were no such secrets and Easter eggs than Talos 1+DLC were. It was neat to take a rest if facing difficult puzzle and going to explore some secrets and interesting Easter eggs. I tried to find pretty thoroughly Easter eggs and secrets in Talos 2 only to find there are few.

I am really scared of how things are going to be in possible DLC or even The Talos Principle 3.

My completion time for the Talos Principle 1 was around 40 hours and my completion time for the Road to Gehenna was around 20 hours. During the gameplay I used solution videos that are on YouTube. I believe that I used 10 solution videos.

My completion time for The Talos Principle 2 was approximately 60 hours. I did not use any solution videos.

My conclusion of all these factors is I am not sure if I can completely relate developers argument The Talos Principle 2 being bigger game than Talos 1+DLC. Maybe it is bigger story-wise but puzzle-wise The Talos Principle 1+DLC has more "meat" (gameplay) even if Talos 2 has more puzzles that the original game has.

My review of the game is here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/Porphyrios/recommended/835960/

[Porphyrios]

I forgot to mention some Sigil Puzzles from The Talos Principle 1 and Road to Gehenna:

The Talos Principle 1: Messenger Island Sigil Puzzles 15, Tool Opening Sigil Puzzles 5, Tutorial Sigil Puzzle 1, Star Gate Sigil Puzzles 3, I forgot one Tower Sigil Puzzle that was on the sixth floor.

Road to Gehenna: Star Gate Puzzle 1

I did intentionally not mention some museum puzzles from The Talos Principle 2 because I assume that they all are the same puzzles as they were in the original games.

Even if I forgot these, it does not change my course.

[bureau44]

TBH this game doesn't require that much puzzles. In TP1 at least 1/3 of them were almost exact clones, added just to make game longer. In TP2 they put more gimmicks and devices, so technically the game has more variety overall. But in practice they are so easy that you hardly notice the difference. At least half of the time in both games is spent on additional chalenges and secrets. In TP1 they were more intricate and unexpected. In TP2 it is mostly mindless running along huge but empty maps. I can easily live with less maps, puzzles, charachters whatever, but I would love to have them more elaborated and multilayered. Take The Witness for example. The world is smaller, but there are so much layers in there that you can explore one location for hours.

[Zorkind]

I found some puzzles in TTP2 that were clones of a puzzle from TTP1.

I think TTP2 lacks in imagination regarding puzzle design. I dunno, I don't feel qualified to question this.

[lowelldogger]

Yes, the story is far more ambitious than in TTP1 and there are 12 large biomes. And don't forget about New Jerusalem itself. I think the metrics you listed are only half of what should be considered.

Also, whether you like them or not, there were many more mechanics in TTP2.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by lowelldogger:

Yes, the story is far more ambitious than in TTP1 and there are 12 large biomes. And don't forget about New Jerusalem itself. I think the metrics you listed are only half of what should be considered.

Also, whether you like them or not, there were many more mechanics in TTP2.

I left New Jerusalem intentionally from my list because it is some sort of side thing of the game. Although there are some crucial things to understand more of the lore. It is like someone of the characters said at the beginning of the game. No word by word quote but it was like: Visit in the New Jerusalem as a sidequest after which we go to the Megastructure." There are some stuff to do but not that much if I am honest.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by Porphyrios:

Originally posted by lowelldogger:

Yes, the story is far more ambitious than in TTP1 and there are 12 large biomes. And don't forget about New Jerusalem itself. I think the metrics you listed are only half of what should be considered.

Also, whether you like them or not, there were many more mechanics in TTP2.

I left New Jerusalem intentionally from my list because it is some sort of side thing of the game. Although there are some crucial things to understand more of the lore. It is like someone of the characters said at the beginning of the game. No word by word quote but it was like: Visit in the New Jerusalem as a sidequest after which we go to the Megastructure." There are some stuff to do but not that much if I am honest.

Searching thoroughly New Jerusalem adds maximum amount of three-four hours to the game as to me.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by bureau44:

TBH this game doesn't require that much puzzles. In TP1 at least 1/3 of them were almost exact clones, added just to make game longer. In TP2 they put more gimmicks and devices, so technically the game has more variety overall. But in practice they are so easy that you hardly notice the difference. At least half of the time in both games is spent on additional chalenges and secrets. In TP1 they were more intricate and unexpected. In TP2 it is mostly mindless running along huge but empty maps. I can easily live with less maps, puzzles, charachters whatever, but I would love to have them more elaborated and multilayered. Take The Witness for example. The world is smaller, but there are so much layers in there that you can explore one location for hours.

I don't mind introducing new interesting mechanics but I waited for how they would put those mechanics in real test. I believe that they missed their chance in many ways. In one of their interview video on YouTube they promised they keep way more harder puzzles for DLC. The video title is "Behind the Schemes The Talos Principle 2 with Croteam". The video is found on DevolverDigital's YouTube channel.

[lowelldogger]

Originally posted by Porphyrios:

I don't mind introducing new interesting mechanics but I waited for how they would put those mechanics in real test. I believe that they missed their chance in many ways. In one of their interview video on YouTube they promised they keep way more harder puzzles for DLC. The video title is "Behind the Schemes The Talos Principle 2 with Croteam". The video is found on DevolverDigital's YouTube channel.

I'm looking forward to seeing these mechanics fully utilized rather than a brief introduction. To me, only getting a taste of a mechanic was one of my least favorite parts of the game.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by Porphyrios:

Originally posted by bureau44:

TBH this game doesn't require that much puzzles. In TP1 at least 1/3 of them were almost exact clones, added just to make game longer. In TP2 they put more gimmicks and devices, so technically the game has more variety overall. But in practice they are so easy that you hardly notice the difference. At least half of the time in both games is spent on additional chalenges and secrets. In TP1 they were more intricate and unexpected. In TP2 it is mostly mindless running along huge but empty maps. I can easily live with less maps, puzzles, charachters whatever, but I would love to have them more elaborated and multilayered. Take The Witness for example. The world is smaller, but there are so much layers in there that you can explore one location for hours.

I don't mind introducing new interesting mechanics but I waited for how they would put those mechanics in real test. I believe that they missed their chance in many ways. In one of their interview video on YouTube they promised they keep way more harder puzzles for DLC. The video title is "Behind the Schemes The Talos Principle 2 with Croteam". The video is found on DevolverDigital's YouTube channel.

And I don't m ind exploring the maps either. My only complain of this exploring thing is commented in my review that I put lastly in this thread. I don't want to repeat it here.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by lowelldogger:

Originally posted by Porphyrios:

I don't mind introducing new interesting mechanics but I waited for how they would put those mechanics in real test. I believe that they missed their chance in many ways. In one of their interview video on YouTube they promised they keep way more harder puzzles for DLC. The video title is "Behind the Schemes The Talos Principle 2 with Croteam". The video is found on DevolverDigital's YouTube channel.

I'm looking forward to seeing these mechanics fully utilized rather than a brief introduction. To me, only getting a taste of a mechanic was one of my least favorite parts of the game.

This brief introduction of the each mechanics. was one of my critiques in my review that is found lastly on my main text of this thread. I just don't want to repeat what I have already said and be found behind the link that's my review link.

[Dr.Abscondus]

You're assuming that bigger means more puzzles. I don't think that's necessarily true. The game world is much bigger and there is far more non-puzzle content. I guess I'll know when I finish the game and count the hours, but I'm a long way from there.

[Porphyrios]

Originally posted by Dr.Abscondus:

You're assuming that bigger means more puzzles. I don't think that's necessarily true. The game world is much bigger and there is far more non-puzzle content. I guess I'll know when I finish the game and count the hours, but I'm a long way from there.

Not necessarly puzzles but secrets ans Easter eggs as well. Please do read my review also to get broader picture.

I am sincere what I am about to say now. If both games would narrowed in a way that there is only puzzles and secrets, I believe that it would be obvious which one is bigger and more time consuming game.

[Anticitizen 1]

Easter eggs aren't a selling point for me personally. I think TP2 is very impressive from visual design perspective and I prefer the puzzles here despite them being a bit easier. Having said that, I like both games. Both are in my top 10 puzzle games.

[Chika Ogiue]

There's a lot more under the hood of TTP2 than TTP1. The election process (social media and direct interaction in NJ), the Sonodrome storyline, interacting with the expedition team, etc., they're each having an affect on the game. True, if you only play once, you'll never notice these changes, but they're there.

For example, if you ask Melville a certain question her line on leaving a certain area changes in response. And there's a LOT of that going on. Don't find certain lost labs fast enough and the game has you contacted by an expedition member who's found it for you, etc.

In other words when you take into account all the writing and not just the puzzles themselves, TTP2 is definitely larger than TTP1. And we don't even have DLC yet!

As for Easter eggs, there's a few, but the setting isn't the same as TTP1 which makes an over abundance of them out of character for TTP2.

[Liam Pope]

I'm not sure about this Easter eggs don't make sense in the real world excuse. When you know the true nature of the puzzles in Talos 2 and how they came to be, imho it makes about as much in universe sense that there would be easter eggs in Talos 2 than in Talos 1, which is not very much really in both cases, but Easter eggs are cool so I want them!