Who Doge can put you in contact with (FULL GAME SPOILERS)

[Sammun Mak]

I haven't seen a comprehensive discussion of this anywhere, so I thought we could all collect data based on our own playthroughs. I'm primarily interested in -- (1)what does each believe, (2) what does each want you to do, and (3) what questions in doge's survey move you towards them?

As a reminder, here are the five people he describes to you:

1. The first is an engineer by trade. Tends to see the world as a puzzle to be solved.
2. The second is a scholar of some repute. Thinks the big questions have answers in our code.
3. The third is... well, it's hard to pin down. A practitioner, let's say, of the esoteric arts.
4. The fourth is a member of the political establishment.
5. And the fifth... well, the less I say about them the better for everyone.

What I know (or think I know)

1. Lynerks
2. Rand
3.
4.
5. Chansey

I got Lynerks by first playthrough, although apparently it was close. I thought hard about every question and tried to answer them honestly.

You can review your answers in the social media, no matter how far you are. Her's what mine was.

1. What is more important for making good decisions: compassion or knowledge.
Me: I reject the terms of the question.
Doge: (paraphrased) answer anyway
Me: Compassion

2. Is it ever okay to lie or misdirect in order to keep a secret?
Me: Yes, lying can be okay.

3. When people do wrong, do they deserve to be punished for it beyond what is necessary for our own protection?
Me: No, no one deserves to suffer unnecessarily.

4. In your opinion can the world be reduced to mechanical part? Or is existence just weirder than we'll ever really know?
Me: The universe is reducible to universal basic laws.

5. Can things really change for the better, for good? Or do good times and bad times just come around in cycles?
Me: Human progress shows things can get better and stay that way.

6. What is more important to the success of civilization: to respect the lessons of our past, or to rewrite the rules to our future?
Me: We should not let the future be defined by our past.

7. Can praying for something make it more likely to come true?
Me: This question is too vague (I wanted to say that prayer can have an effect, but through the impact it has on the person praying rather than something that goes out into the world. I was hoping that by objecting to the question it would let me specify something like that.)

Apparently this gave me a tie, so later, I was asked:
8. The ultimate question... Spikes? Or goo?
Me: Spikes

This put me in contact with Lynerks, the engineer. I'm guessing that the other one I was close to was Chansey.

Near the end of the game, Chansey also invited me to be part of his thing citing compassion.

What does Lynerks believe in?
- Material reality
- Progress is good and we should look forward

What does he ask you to do?
1. Try the somnodrome, and transfer its data to everyone.
2. Embrace the theory of everything

On my second play-through, where I embraced a kind of "life is what it is, it's arrogant to try to transform it, and we all just need to focus on being moral (tm)" I made the mistake of answering "No, lying is never okay" which seems to short-circuit the whole thing. Since they're members of secret societies, none of them want to meet with you (apparently), but then Doge puts you in touch with Rand because he's also very principle-based. I never really got along with him so I didn't learn much.

[GlorFindel1983]

It's my first playthrough, not finished yet and I didn't pay that much attention to all possible answers, didn't write them down and/or remembered them all.

All I can add to your list is that number 3. "A practitioner, of the esoteric arts" is Helga, as I got her to talk to privately after answering Doge's questions. I sadly don't remember the answers, will sure pay more attention on second and consecutive playthroughs!

[Sammun Mak]

You can actually just review your answers in the social media if you load the game, just navigate to the conversation you had with Doge! No pressure though. Do you also remember what she said about the somnodrome and theory of everything?

[smjjames]

Originally posted by glorfindel1983:

It's my first playthrough, not finished yet and I didn't pay that much attention to all possible answers, didn't write them down and/or remembered them all.

All I can add to your list is that number 3. "A practitioner, of the esoteric arts" is Helga, as I got her to talk to privately after answering Doge's questions. I sadly don't remember the answers, will sure pay more attention on second and consecutive playthroughs!

:cozybethesda:

Given who are at the holotable at a certain point, that'd certainly fit. In that same vein, 4 is probably Jeremy, the mayor's Chief Aide.

I got Lynerks in my playthrough.

[VengefulAncient]

Originally posted by smjjames:

I got Lynerks in my playthrough.

I'm suspecting you always do. I've only done two playthroughs so far but tried completely different answers and still got Lynerks both times.

[kory]

My partner got Helga on his playthrough.

[Sipher]

what was this secret societies goal to begin with? Im confused because all of them have very different oppinions of what to do, so it cant be a club of somewhat prominent members of the society that are dissatisfied with the direction hermann is bringing them. Also what is doges play in this? I found him (with his "evil" design and having the number 666) to be very interesting, possibly fullfilling the anti-faith role that milton had in the first game, but after the first dialoge with doge, and the 2 private messages i never saw or heard from him ever again.

[GlorFindel1983]

OK, I found the answers:

1. What is more important for making good decisions: compassion or knowledge?
Me: Knowledge.

2. Is it ever okay to lie or misdirect in order to keep a secret?
Me: Yes, lying can be okay.

3. When people do wrong, do they deserve to be punished for it beyond what is necessary for our own protection?
Me: No, no one deserves to suffer unnecessarily.

4. In your opinion can the world be reduced to mechanical part? Or is existence just weirder than we'll ever really know?
Me: The universe is weird, we'll never fully understand it.

5. Can things really change for the better, for good? Or do good times and bad times just come around in cycles?
Me: It's a false dilemma.

Than, Doge says: "I know it's difficult to translate our infinite reality to binary language. Nonetheless I suggest if you have any natural inclination towards either idea, you answer that way, even if it's not strictly correct. But if you insist I'll communicate your apathy to my companions.

Me: Eventually change for the better is always followed by the change for the worse.

6. What is more important to the success of civilisation: to respect the lessons of our past, or to rewrite the rules to our future?
Me: We should not disregard the wisdom which brought us here.

7. Can praying for something make it more likely to come true?
Me: No, prayer has not effect on the world.


And, that's how I got Helga. And, I also, became a member of her "secret Coven".

She said to be open minded about the somnodrome, but said not to decide right now/then what will I do and not to tell anyone about my decision prior to doing it.

After I shared somnodrome data to everyone, she was pleased and said she can't wait to see the results.

[Bullpup]

I got Rand, can't find the thread, but I'm not sure it did anything besides comment on your stated intention at the meeting just before second trip and a reminder of Rand's point of view before you actually make the decision (that a special society must decide how to interpret the message of the somnodrome because basically people can't be trusted to behave rationally when presented with a hard truth).

[Diamond Knight]

Anyone know the secret pass phrases of Helga and Jeremy? I'm curious what they are.

[smjjames]

Originally posted by andrej:

what was this secret societies goal to begin with? Im confused because all of them have very different oppinions of what to do, so it cant be a club of somewhat prominent members of the society that are dissatisfied with the direction hermann is bringing them. Also what is doges play in this? I found him (with his "evil" design and having the number 666) to be very interesting, possibly fullfilling the anti-faith role that milton had in the first game, but after the first dialoge with doge, and the 2 private messages i never saw or heard from him ever again.

Her actually, the character is female (though being robots, they can be whatever gender the heck they want), and yeah, I was like 'heck of a number' when I noticed her number.

They seemed more like a collection of people who wanted to break the status quo in some way and do it in the background. Although Jeremy seems like he's the one who would continue the status quo. I'm not sure what his views are.

As for prominent members of society, Chancey doesn't seem like they're prominent, but they're also the oldest of the group, though Helga isn't that much younger relatively speaking. Though they're also the most secretive of the group apparently? Maybe saying that they're a gardener or treehugger or something would set off too many political triggers? Or it's a 'don't judge a book by it's cover' sort of thing?

[GlorFindel1983]

Originally posted by Diamond Knight:

Anyone know the secret pass phrases of Helga and Jeremy? I'm curious what they are.

Helga's secret code phrase is: "Majestic dashing hamsters", but she mentions in previous sentence that's just random words she thought off at that moment.

And latter, when you return to New Jerusalem, with that "Secret code phrase" you get 1000 credits from her and can buy "Inner Peace"!

[VengefulAncient]

Originally posted by glorfindel1983:

And latter, when you return to New Jerusalem, with that "Secret code phrase" you get 1000 credits from her and can buy "Inner Peace"!

Ah so that's how you get that, thanks for the info!

[Sammun Mak]

From reading those answers, it's hard for me to say what drives Helga. It seems like she likes answers involving respecting the past and rejecting the idea that an "ideal" future is possible, IDK.

[Dangerzone50]

There is a fair bit going on behind the scenes with this... Only 4 are possible, the gardener is a bonus 5th if you make the right somnodrome choice and talk to him about plants in the final new Jerusalem visit. The various answers on Doges questions (and indeed ALL of the social media responses) all effect a hidden score system with values such as "intelligence, compassion, empathy, etc." But the Doge questions are more then enough to swing your starting score one way or the other. Being super vague: if you answer about morality you get Rand, if you are evasive you get Helga, answer about engineering and you get lynerics, and make all the "this is bad" answers and you get Jeremy.

[Monodug]

Originally posted by Sammun Mak:

From reading those answers, it's hard for me to say what drives Helga. It seems like she likes answers involving respecting the past and rejecting the idea that an "ideal" future is possible, IDK.

I got Helga in my playthrough, and I ended up liking her a LOT more than I thought I would. If I had to summarize her general position on things, I personally would say that she cares less about the passage of time and its effect on external/societal progress and more about the “inner person.” I think she might be the type of person who feels like she cannot “accept” nor “reject” another person’s ideals or beliefs, as long as their decision has been made according to knowledge of oneself and not because of the influence of others.