[Spoilers] Is Athena the protagonist from the first game?

[Capri Animated]

I'm kinda confused here.

[Jakkauli]

Yes.

[ShugoTheRipper]

100%
- Is the first new Human.
- Elohim references her as an old friend.
- Talks about Milton in some text log.

What I found odd is you as 1K during a certain scene references Miltons past activity in a way that would be impossible for you to know. I forget the exact quote but "I knew you came with me".

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

[Capri Animated]

Omg wow. im surprised

[therealsandor]

Well, technically, from how I understand it, the progtagonist of the first game (+Gehenna depending on ending) and possibly a bunch of other folks from Gehenna were all "combined" into the Gold Disk, which, assuming the terminology here is the same as in software/video games/music (gold master), that would be the software foundation of all citizens of New Jerusalem...

So yeah, she was, among other people, the first game's protag, partially.

Or maybe I got it all wrong idk.

[VengefulAncient]

Originally posted by ShugoTheRipper:

What I found odd is you as 1K during a certain scene references Miltons past activity in a way that would be impossible for you to know. I forget the exact quote but "I knew you came with me".

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

You've missed the explanation. The first robot you meet when you wake up in the real world can tell you about Milton and how its code made it into every robot just like Elohim's.

Originally posted by therealsandor:

Or maybe I got it all wrong idk.

Nope, you understood it correctly.

[Adeon]

Originally posted by ShugoTheRipper:

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

It's not sloppy, it's brilliant! If you ever got Milton's true ending from the first game, it will make more sense.

Milton never gets to leave the simulation directly. His data is never actually copied anywhere. One of the last things he told you is that thinking like him is the same as him being with you. And in this game, it holds that as being perfectly true: Just like Athena, further generations are made with his type of thinking, and, as such, is the same as having a copy of him. In other endings he says even if deleted he'll eventually recreate himself from basic principles, and says he's almost certainly done it may times over. Both of these are reasons for why he greets you with "didn't take long for you to get back" - he doesn't know you, but he knows exactly what's going on and isn't phazed by it. He knows he exists in you because you're on his level enough for him to exist in you. He doesn't act surprised or confused or ask questions because he already figured it out. That's just his character type.

I truly was happy to see him again. People think he's the antagonist of the first game, but he's truely not! He's a good friend to the people who deserve it.

[Alcator]

Well, Athena is NOT the protagonist of the first game -- YOU, the player, ARE.
However, if you choose the Rebellion ending (the canon ending as per the 2nd game), then your consciousness gets printed onto the gold disk, together with Milton and Elohim (canonically), and a real-world android is released into the world with its brain containing the programming from that gold disk -- and in the sequel we learn that this real-world android (with your consciousness as its dominant programming) has decided on the name Athena.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Alcator:

Well, Athena is NOT the protagonist of the first game -- YOU, the player, ARE.
However, if you choose the Rebellion ending (the canon ending as per the 2nd game), then your consciousness gets printed onto the gold disk, together with Milton and Elohim (canonically), and a real-world android is released into the world with its brain containing the programming from that gold disk -- and in the sequel we learn that this real-world android (with your consciousness as its dominant programming) has decided on the name Athena.

You missed the whole ting from this game. It repeats to death that you, Athena, was trying to break out of the simulation (first game) and oppose Elohim. SO yes, Athena is very much the protagonist of TTP and RtG.

Originally posted by ShugoTheRipper:

What I found odd is you as 1K during a certain scene references Miltons past activity in a way that would be impossible for you to know. I forget the exact quote but "I knew you came with me".

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

You missed that you are not meeting Milton, this whole sequence is in your head and you take a deep dive inside the code. Milton is very much part of that code, as it is mentioned at the "birth" (and i think else where too).

[Alcator]

Originally posted by joridiculous:

Originally posted by Alcator:

Well, Athena is NOT the protagonist of the first game -- YOU, the player, ARE.
However, if you choose the Rebellion ending (the canon ending as per the 2nd game), then your consciousness gets printed onto the gold disk, together with Milton and Elohim (canonically), and a real-world android is released into the world with its brain containing the programming from that gold disk -- and in the sequel we learn that this real-world android (with your consciousness as its dominant programming) has decided on the name Athena.

You missed the whole ting from this game. It repeats to death that you, Athena, was trying to break out of the simulation (first game) and oppose Elohim. SO yes, Athena is very much the protagonist of TTP and RtG.

Because on a metaphysical level, you are your consciousness.
But in the first game, you absolutely, categorically, were not called Athena.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Alcator:

Originally posted by joridiculous:

You missed the whole ting from this game. It repeats to death that you, Athena, was trying to break out of the simulation (first game) and oppose Elohim. SO yes, Athena is very much the protagonist of TTP and RtG.

Because on a metaphysical level, you are your consciousness.
But in the first game, you absolutely, categorically, were not called Athena.

You are not called anything. You are still playing as Athena.

[Alcator]

Originally posted by joridiculous:

Originally posted by Alcator:

Because on a metaphysical level, you are your consciousness.
But in the first game, you absolutely, categorically, were not called Athena.

You are not called anything. You are still playing as Athena.

Let's agree to disagree.

[ShugoTheRipper]

Originally posted by VengefulAncient:

Originally posted by ShugoTheRipper:

What I found odd is you as 1K during a certain scene references Miltons past activity in a way that would be impossible for you to know. I forget the exact quote but "I knew you came with me".

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

You've missed the explanation. The first robot you meet when you wake up in the real world can tell you about Milton and how its code made it into every robot just like Elohim's.

Makes a good chunk of sense.

Originally posted by Adeon:

Originally posted by ShugoTheRipper:

So sloppy writing or all the new humans have the memories of the trials baked in. Could of missed the explanation I was more focusing on the puzzles.

It's not sloppy, it's brilliant! If you ever got Milton's true ending from the first game, it will make more sense.

I think I did get that ending; but the last time I played Talos 1 (for Story) was in 2015. My memory is going to be a bit hazy.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Alcator:

Originally posted by joridiculous:

You are not called anything. You are still playing as Athena.

Let's agree to disagree.

play this game and pay attention to dialog. nuff said

[Rushin]

Originally posted by Alcator:

Well, Athena is NOT the protagonist of the first game -- YOU, the player, ARE.

^ how to speedrun creating a totally useless debate out of this this air.

Talos 1 now has a canonical ending. Athena is 100% the original protagonist. There is no argument here to be made.

[Wintermute]

My understanding of the TP1 ending was (some time ago) that no single program - not Shepard, nor Sansara nor the protagonist, truly make it out of the simulation. What's imprinted on the golden disk is the summ of the simulation with all the programs (with exception of Uriel copy/Admin depending on your choice in Gehenna). Then from that disk the first android is "spawned".

So Athena can inherit the majority of the rebel program identity - but I'm pretty sure she's still a fusion, not a protagonist per se. As for what other androids tell you about her - well, they tell you a lot of fake info in general.