Puzzle Softlock: "Other Side"

[eternal.sessionxiii]

There needs to be a one way ladder back to the entrance room of the puzzle. It's currently possible to get permanently trapped if you fall through the driller hole without taking the driller with you, and the driller is not opening the blue field.

[eternal.sessionxiii]

Beyond this needed hot fix, I'd even go one step further and say this puzzle should just be completely replaced. It's inconsistent with the previous rules of the game when the driller is introduced.

There's even a dedicated tool tip for the problem here, "Can't take driller through its own hole."

Except a driller somehow can pass through its own hole as long it's falling? Even if we consider the usual caveat that items continue to function when moved via gravity instead of by the player, that doesn't really make much sense in this case considering the driller has to face the surface of copper plating to work, and how can it be facing either side's surface when it is within the hole that it itself is currently creating?

[Rushin]

Abusing the driller falling through its own hole is a glitch and if you solve a puzzle by that, know that there's a different "intended" solution for it. Puzzles shouldn't be replaced because of it, the driller just needs an adjustment / fix.

UPD: I was wrong. I confused this puzzle (in which the intended solution involves
the driller flying through its own hole) with another one, in which
a driller can vertically drop down its own hole by just gravity and nothing else,
which is definitely a glitch and it's finicky to accomplish.

[dime]

There's tons on puzzles where you can get soft lock. There's a reset button for this purpose, hold D-Pad down if you are using a controller.

[eternal.sessionxiii]

Originally posted by Rushin':

Abusing the driller falling through its own hole is a glitch and if you solve a puzzle by that, know that there's a different "intended" solution for it. Puzzles shouldn't be replaced because of it, the driller just needs an adjustment / fix.

It's really not. Go to S2 Puzzle 6 and you'll find that you have to drop a driller through its own hole using gravity. The fact that this is required is the problem, because it doesn't follow the game's own internal logic. It's just a weird exception for the sake of a tricky moment.

The problem being that it creates a game-state that can't be undone.

Upon further reflection, a one-way ladder would still create the possibility of solving the puzzle but then climbing the ladder before activating the puzzle end, creating another softlock. As long as the driller can pass through its own hole, it opens up the possibility of game states that can't be undone without resetting.

[bvrakvs]

Hold X on PC to reset puzzle, there is no soft lock per se, when you can reset at any moment

There are many cases I got locked in or locked my tools behind unlockable barriers, you just reset, no need to cry about soft lock, when you have a reset button, weird take

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by Rushin':

Abusing the driller falling through its own hole is a glitch

No it isn't, there's at least one puzzle where you're intended to pull a driller through its own hole by using a gravity beam. This is clearly an intended mechanic because if you set up the gravity beam first, when you go to place the hole location, it automatically locks in position to the beam, to make certain they're aligned.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by eternal.sessionxiii:

There needs to be a one way ladder back to the entrance room of the puzzle. It's currently possible to get permanently trapped if you fall through the driller hole without taking the driller with you, and the driller is not opening the blue field.

if you like you can lock yourself in ALL puzzles in the game. That's why the game have two resets. Hold X (d-pad down) or Esc ("menu") Reset Checkpoint.

[Goblin]

The only thing that possibly needs changing is the note that you can't take a driller through it's own hole. Changing take to grab makes it clearer.

The only reason you can't grab them through their own hole is that the moment you pick it up, it stops making a hole. A wall materializing inside of your arms while you're reaching through a hole doesn't sound like a fun experience. Objects moving by any other means do not stop functioning so the hole never disappears, so there's nothing wrong with the puzzles.

[Rushin]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

No it isn't, there's at least one puzzle where you're intended to pull a driller through its own hole by using a gravity beam.

That premeditated and fully intended solution is VERY different from the glitch where a driller just falls through its own hole with nothing else involved other than mother gravity.

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

This is clearly an intended mechanic

It isn't. Gravity beam tool snaps to all items anyway. This here is still a glitch. If you solve a puzzle by abusing it then there also exists the intended solution that doesn't involve it. They've clearly taking steps to try and prevent it since it's quite finicky to make it work.

There are plenty of other glitches that you can take advantage of - I've teleported through plasma walls and got out of bounds in several puzzles, and even fell off the map through the floor. All these things (just like the driller falling through its hole on its own) require finicky setups and/or abuse physics. You can safely assume none of the intended solutions require any of the such. But hey, you're free to stick to your opinion.

[Shrinkshooter]

Originally posted by Rushin':

It isn't. Gravity beam tool snaps to all items anyway.

It isn't the gravity beam that's doing the snapping, it's the hole that snaps to the beam on the wall. Erego: intended mechanic. I wasn't talking about a driller falling through its own hole. I tried that one time and it didn't work, and I can't think of any puzzles where that would solve it.

But the OP's whole point is that it doesn't make logical sense for a driller to pass through its own hole in any circumstance. Which is true IMO. It's a bit strange they broke their own rule for a single puzzle using a gravity beam, and then this modified rule is never used again.

[Rushin]

Ok, my bad, seems like I completely misunderstood the issue. I don't remember puzzle names by heart. I thought OP solved a puzzle by dropping a downwards-pointed drill through its hole (which is exactly what I did once, this works and it can break at least one puzzle). I thought OP incorrectly assumed this to be the intended solution and suggested for the puzzle to be replaced. Turns out we're all talking about a different puzzle and a different issue.

I guess technically we're both correct - that puzzle about sucking the driller out with the gravity beam does kinda break its own rules, while a driller pointed downwards and falling through the hole on its own is also unintentional. Sorry for the confusion!

[Goblin]

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

But the OP's whole point is that it doesn't make logical sense for a driller to pass through its own hole in any circumstance. Which is true IMO. It's a bit strange they broke their own rule for a single puzzle using a gravity beam, and then this modified rule is never used again.

You can also take drillers through their own hole horizontally with fans. There's no puzzle where it's the solution, but I still see no reason why it shouldn't work. Every other item can be moved while still active as long as they're not picked up, drillers are no different.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Goblin:

Originally posted by Shrinkshooter:

But the OP's whole point is that it doesn't make logical sense for a driller to pass through its own hole in any circumstance. Which is true IMO. It's a bit strange they broke their own rule for a single puzzle using a gravity beam, and then this modified rule is never used again.

You can also take drillers through their own hole horizontally with fans. There's no puzzle where it's the solution, but I still see no reason why it shouldn't work. Every other item can be moved while still active as long as they're not picked up, drillers are no different.

Precisely. This also was how they worked in TTP / RtG. Also the 'correct' way to solve some of the puzzles.

[Chika Ogiue]

Just did this puzzle myself, and I agree with the OP. The error message that the player is given any time they try to move a driller through a hole with their hand, is misleading and counterproductive to the intended solution for this puzzle. The developers should consider changing it to either grab, carry, or pick up. in place of take.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by eternal.sessionxiii:

Originally posted by Rushin':

Abusing the driller falling through its own hole is a glitch and if you solve a puzzle by that, know that there's a different "intended" solution for it. Puzzles shouldn't be replaced because of it, the driller just needs an adjustment / fix.

It's really not. Go to S2 Puzzle 6 and you'll find that you have to drop a driller through its own hole using gravity. The fact that this is required is the problem, because it doesn't follow the game's own internal logic. It's just a weird exception for the sake of a tricky moment.

The problem being that it creates a game-state that can't be undone.

Upon further reflection, a one-way ladder would still create the possibility of solving the puzzle but then climbing the ladder before activating the puzzle end, creating another softlock. As long as the driller can pass through its own hole, it opens up the possibility of game states that can't be undone without resetting.

It follows the same logic as any other tool that needs to be placed before it works.
Jammer: Can not be moved true the force field it is "jamming" while being carried. BUT you can place the jammer on a tablet and carry the tablet and jammer through the force field.
You can do the same with any of the reflectors.
And exactly the same logic happens when you move the driller with the galaxy field.