Can we talk about the sparks and puzzle skipping?

[Rushin]

I'm genuinely curious why these are even in the game at all.

There are heated debates about the puzzle difficulty in this game - some find it too easy, some like it the way it is. Clearly, people have different preferences and overall experience with the genre. Someone who played a lot of puzzle games before may breeze through it while another person struggles. Some adamantly refuse to look up solutions no matter how long it takes, others immediately hate being stuck. But all in all I think it's perfectly fine if you find certain puzzles too challenging and need assistance.

But why have that assistance in a form of literal "press button to skip puzzle"?

The whole fun about the genre is figuring out how to solve each puzzle. It's that "aha!" moment when it just clicks and you figure it out, being rewarded for solving it. But sometimes it's too hard; you're just not seeing the solution. This is where you might give up and look at a guide - maybe a mere text hint, maybe a full-on youtube playthrough - but you end up thinking "oooh THAT'S what I was meant to do!". Chances are you only need a nudge in the right direction. It's still fun to find out the solution - even if you didn't completely figure it out on your own you still basically "experienced" the whole puzzle so to speak.

...or you just pressed a button and will never even try to solve it ever again.

Why? Why is this in the game? Who uses this? When I found out what sparks do I immediately thought "yep, I'm clearly not using that ever once". I feel like many people would agree on this too. If you used sparks, why did you do it? Why not check out the solution and find out what the puzzle was about? Doesn't using a spark simply rob you off of a part of the fun to be had by playing this game?

I understand that games can (and often should) be more accessible. Some puzzle games also have the "skip level" functionality in one way or another, but almost always in a way of being able to come back to this level a bit later. But not flat out mark it as "solved". Plus there's the obvious argument of the game only requiring you to solve 8 out of 10 puzzles in each area (with Lost ones being consistently no more difficult than regular ones... for some reason), so you can effectively only solve 6/10 and consider the game complete. It's strange. Again, why not look up the solutions when you get stuck? Isn't that a lot more fun?

UPD: I was apparently misinformed that using a spark prevents the level from being reset and tried over. I'm being told you can do that and even get the spark back. So effectively it mirrors a typical "skip level" button (which I think are usually fine). Still, a bit strange why you'd choose to do that when you already don't have to solve all puzzles (and the point about looking up solutions instead stays), but alright.

[Albie There]

You paid for the puzzles.... If you are skipping them you are throwing money away.

[Snackille O'Meal]

Probably the ONLY thing I wished for was that there was an achievement for NOT using a spark (like in the first game). Or an achievement for using one, then going back later to solve it and get the spark back.

[Albie There]

Usually when you are really stuck like, you spent 20min in a puzzle and can't solve it, it's better to leave the game, come back hours later, or even the next day. Lots of times when I did that playing puzzle games, I solved the puzzle in 1 or 2min.

Just get to know the puzzle 1st, and your subconscious will keep trying to solve it.

[Albie There]

@Snackille

Yeah if there is no achievement for not using flames, they are pointless...

[King of Wei]

someone said you can get sparks back if you solve the puzzle later. if that's true then at least people can still discover the solutions themselves instead of having a guide or hint do it for them. some people will still just look up a guide but having a resource in-game to skip puzzles will make doing so less tempting, power of psychology and all that.

[Rushin]

Originally posted by Snackille O'Meal 🌻:

Probably the ONLY thing I wished for was that there was an achievement for NOT using a spark (like in the first game). Or an achievement for using one, then going back later to solve it and get the spark back.

I'm embarrassed to say that as much as loved Talos 1 (and having 100%-ed it) I do not remember anything about the sparks or similar puzzle-skipping mechanics in it. It's... been a long time since I played that game. Would you care to ELI5 what it was about? I've look up the achievements and I'm not sure which one you're referring to either.

Originally posted by King of Wei:

someone said you can get sparks back if you solve the puzzle later.

Would love to have a confirmation for this. I heard the opposite, someone said you can't even reset the puzzle if it was "sparked".
I might just go backup my save file and see how it works for myself.

[Pyro Penguin]

Originally posted by Rushin':

Originally posted by Snackille O'Meal 🌻:

Probably the ONLY thing I wished for was that there was an achievement for NOT using a spark (like in the first game). Or an achievement for using one, then going back later to solve it and get the spark back.

I'm embarrassed to say that as much as loved Talos 1 (and having 100%-ed it) I do not remember anything about the sparks or similar puzzle-skipping mechanics in it. It's... been a long time since I played that game. Would you care to ELI5 what it was about? I've look up the achievements and I'm not sure which one you're referring to either.

Originally posted by King of Wei:

someone said you can get sparks back if you solve the puzzle later.

Would love to have a confirmation for this. I heard the opposite, someone said you can't even reset the puzzle if it was "sparked".
I might just go backup my save file and see how it works for myself.

it says in the game that you can go back and solve a puzzle that you used a spark on and you get it back

[Snackille O'Meal]

Originally posted by Rushin':

Originally posted by Snackille O'Meal 🌻:

Probably the ONLY thing I wished for was that there was an achievement for NOT using a spark (like in the first game). Or an achievement for using one, then going back later to solve it and get the spark back.

I'm embarrassed to say that as much as loved Talos 1 (and having 100%-ed it) I do not remember anything about the sparks or similar puzzle-skipping mechanics in it. It's... been a long time since I played that game. Would you care to ELI5 what it was about? I've look up the achievements and I'm not sure which one you're referring to either.

Originally posted by King of Wei:

someone said you can get sparks back if you solve the puzzle later.

Would love to have a confirmation for this. I heard the opposite, someone said you can't even reset the puzzle if it was "sparked".
I might just go backup my save file and see how it works for myself.

TTP1 had "hints" that you could use, so technically, not out-right solutions, but they definitely helped a lot if you were stuck, but you got credit if you never used one.

You can absolutely get a spark back if you go back to the puzzle and solve it correctly, once you get to the table, the red disappears and the blue solved light appears. (I tried it)

[Rushin]

Good to know, thanks, it does help. I'll edit the OP a bit.

Still weird that you can skip puzzles when you're already not required to solve all of them, but okay.

[Lonestar1804]

I like that you don't have to solve every puzzle to go on. You don't have to use the tips or sparks, if you don't need them. And if you are stuck in a puzzle, you can just skip it and try it again later. So everybody wins. Better than just looking for a solution in a walkthrough. I didn't need it yet, but it's good to know, it's there.

I never finished the DLC of the first game, because it was too difficult. So I like that new system very much.

[steven777]

I've only done the first tower. How do you even get a spark?

[Goblin]

Originally posted by steven777:

I've only done the first tower. How do you even get a spark?

Most of them are just lying around, some are hidden behind simple puzzles. You can find one near puzzle 3 in the first area, so you'll at least know what to look for.

[mreed2]

Sparks are literally just sitting out in the environement. You just need to touch them to gain one. Spoiler for the spark in the first world:

It is located outside of puzzle number 3, near the entrance. This puzzle has an elevated entrance and the spark is located in a position where you need to get to climb the ramp to get to the entrance of the puzzle, jump up on the low wall that prevents you from falling off, and jump to the spark.[/spolier]

[аnŌn]

This is the second time Croteam has decided to put gameplay-skippers into their games, first being Serious Sam 4 three years ago, it's incredibly bad design and it shows that they have 0 confidence in both their game and the players.

[tcassat]

I don't bother with these mechanics because I simply don't use them. I think it's useless, too, but because in the information age anyone can find the solution to any puzzle immediately if they want to. So basically the sparks are for those who are too lazy to go on YouTube to see how to solve a puzzle...

Originally posted by аnŌn:

This is the second time Croteam has decided to put gameplay-skippers into their games, first being Serious Sam 4 three years ago, it's incredibly bad design and it shows that they have 0 confidence in both their game and the players.

In the case of Serious Sam 4 it's much worse, in fact, they ruined the balance of the game with that plethora of "gameplay avoiders".
In a puzzle game, offering the solution isn't as bad as people think, because as I said above, the solution is already widely available an "alt+tab" away.