The Topology of Eg-Lana? [spoilers]

[Dan]

I have completed the game several times, and noticed the areas aren't quite as methodically laid out as in the first game. For example, each area is numbered 1-8, has a definite backside, uses precise geometry to solve the wedge puzzle at the end of the game.

La-Mulana 2 doesn't have that. There is a lack of pattern.

Not every area has a frontside and backside. Not every area has a crystal skull; those that do aren't area pairs from Corridor of Blood. Immortal Battlefield is really big and is its own backside - but this is different from Eternal Prison which has two distinct halves? Shrine of the Frost Giants has an ankh jewel but it's not paired with a specific area (Icefire has its own jewel/ankh). Etc etc.

Dissonance is caused by the internal strife of a child generation. The areas that have dissonance:
1st gen - Nibiru
2nd gen - Mausoleum of the Giants
3rd gen - Heaven's Labyrinth
5th gen - Dark Star Lord's Mausoleum
6th gen - Valhalla
7th gen (?) - Eternal Prison

... don't quite match up with the front/back of areas in the Corridor of Blood. Nibiru and Mausoleum of the Giants even aren't found in Eg Lana! Why does the dissonance appear in Nibiru from the Sky People (who aren't even a descendant of Mother) when it should be the 1st generation snakemen that they brainwashed in Ancient Chaos instead?

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Looking at Norse cosmology, we have Yggdrasil and the Nine Worlds that it connects to:
- Asgard (Divine Fortress)
- Vanaheim (Vanhalla, where Vanir are)
- Alfheim (Annwfn, home of faeries)
- Midgard (Earth / La-Mulana)
- Jotunheim (Immortal Battlefield; I'm placing this here because the Jotun enemies that appear near the end are associated with the 9th child)
- Muspellheim (Icefire Treetops; Surtr)
- Svartalfheim (Dark Star Lord's Mausoleum; "dark elves and dwarves", only area that might fit)
- Niflheim (Shrine of the Frost Giants; Bergelmir)
- Nidavellr (Gate of the Dead; home of Dwarves)
- Yggdrasil (obvious)
- Hel (Eternal Prison)

I am not completely confident in the areas I assigned to mythology. However if we match these up, this leaves a few areas that are not connected to the Norse / world tree mythology: Hall of Malice, Heaven's Labyrinth, Ancient Chaos, Takamagahara Shrine and (depending on whether you count it) Mausoleum of the Giants. These areas just seem to exist for the sake of La Mulana's children cosmology and not Norse.

Basically, even with tablets, I'm confused how you're supposed to "know" which areas are important to the game mythology when things seem very arbitrary.

[Scrubbing Bubbles® Gaming]

I think Midguard would make more sense to be the Immortal Battlefield, considering that its surrounded by water in Myth, as is the IB

Which would make Jotunheim the Shrine of the Frost Giants, since, its literally a snowy place where frost giants live.

As for Niflheim, Im pretty sure that Icefire Treetop counts as both Muspellheim (left side) AND Niflheim (right side.)

[mauro7inf]

Originally posted by Dan:

Not every area has a frontside and backside. Not every area has a crystal skull; those that do aren't area pairs from Corridor of Blood. Immortal Battlefield is really big and is its own backside - but this is different from Eternal Prison which has two distinct halves?

You *have* solved the Brahma puzzle, right? Because that will tell you the layout of Eg-Lana.

I think it's fine that it doesn't match La-Mulana. To be honest, I'm not a fan of how not interconnected it is; a few of the areas got me pretty bored of them by the time I did everything there was to do. But in principle, the way the game is laid out -- without the front-back symmetry of La-Mulana -- is perfectly fine.

Spoilers from here on out!


First you have the Tree. That's Roots, Annwfn, Battlefield, and Icefire. It may appear that Roots and Annwfn have no backside and Battlefield and Icefire are their own backsides, but that's not true. The grail tablets just come in two different colors. It's not specifically front/back. Oh, and there's Spiral Hell. I guess that's its own special place.

Then you have the frontside Branches. These do have a backside. You have the Divine Fortress, home of the Aesir of the 6th Children, the Shrine of the Frost Giants, home of the 2nd Children, Takamagahara, home of the Kotoamatsu of the 1st Children, Heaven's Labyrinth, home of the Olympians of the 3rd Children, Gate of the Dead, home of the Ennead of the 5th Children, and Eternal Prison - Gloom (which has a black grail tablet, but who cares), home of the Underworld people (not a specific one of the Children).

Then you have the backside Branches, the backsides of the frontside Branches above. You have Valhalla, home of the Vanir of the 6th Chidlren, the destroyed Shrine of the Frost Giants (accessible through the Corridor of Blood), home of the 2nd Children, the Ancient Chaos, home of the Annunaki of the 1st Children, Hall of Malice, home of the Gigas of the 3rd Children, Dark Star Lord's Mausoleum, home of the Amarna of the 5th Children, and Eternal Prison - Doom, home of the Underworld people. These backsides are where the Guardians live for these Branches (except the destroyed Branch).

The Ankh Jewels aren't necessarily spread around; I think they're just used as puzzle rewards. Every Tree area and Branch has its own Guardian (except the branch of the 2nd Children, the destroyed branch that has no counterpart), and all of the Branch guardians release their dissonance except Anu (I think it's a bit silly that his dissonance is actually released by Anzu instead, but anyway). For Vritra, Aten-Ra, and Hel, they release their dissonance immediately. Echidna does it when you destroy Typhon after killing her. The Shrine doesn't have a Guardian, but Sakit fulfills that role; killing him (well... helping him die) releases his dissonance. Sure, it's not physically in the Shrine, but so what?

Now, I think putting the dissonance of the 1st Children up in Nibiru was a pretty good idea. I just think it should have required Anu to be dead. Maybe it actually does (I killed Anu long before I released that dissonance). But story-wise, it makes perfect sense. It's just really different from the other dissonances in that it's actually part of a different puzzle entirely, the sealing of the Corridor of Blood, which is LM2's version of the Wedges from LM1. So I do think it's a little weird to lump that dissonance with the Nibiru puzzle from a gameplay perspective.

I wouldn't expect the Crystal Skulls to be evenly distributed at all. Not sure why you think they should be. Especially given the Brahma puzzle.

I also don't think that looking for specific parallels in mythology is productive. Nigoro was obviously inspired by mythology, but they made up their own in a lot of places to fit the game, so you shouldn't take it as true in the game's universe.

[Dan]

Despite that, the interpretations of mythology are still pretty spot-on.

For example, Jormungandr was thrown into the ocean and encircles the world. During the time just before Ragnarok, he comes upon land. You raise his tablet out of the water that surrounds Immortal Battlefield, and you even get Mjolnir after the fight, to say nothing of his serpentine design (and he still retains the ouroboros motif during the fight, since he drives in circles)

One I thought was particularly clever was that Fenrir's mythology as Ragnarok approaches was to cover one half of the world with fire, while Jormungandr sprayed poison into the skies. In Fenrir's case, he fills the right half of the screen with explosive missiles during his fight, which is also a very literal interpretation.

So even if it's not a 1:1 borrowing of ideas (and it would get boring if Nigoro did that), I am impressed by just how many random obscure things they managed to fit in.

[RobotLucca]

Somewhat of a necro but since I did some investigation into this topic of my own I figured I'd post some of my findings here.

La-Mulana was structured rather abstractly, based on arbitrary patterns and rules, with the idea that despite how it looks, a lot of it is actually heavily intentional. Fobos openly admits to having refurbished La-Mulana to be a "land of ordeals".
Eg-Lana, on the other hand, is very physical, with the idea that this is a hodge-podge mess that's been accumulating over the thousands of years that races have been banished and warring here.

The basic structure involves the "trunk" of Yggdrasil, consisting of Roots of Yggdrasil, Annwfn, Immortal Battlefield, and Icefire Treetop. Surrounding the "trunk" are the "branches", of which generally only the "frontside" branches are directly accessible from the "trunk", which contributes to the trunk's "hub world" nature.

Branches always have a connection to their flip side, and branches generally don't connect to other pairs (with a couple exceptions).

A second architecture is present as well, the Corridor of Blood, which connects the "backside" branches similarly to how the trunk connects the "frontside" branches. Rather than an upside-down tree, however, the Corridor of Blood takes the form of a six-pointed star - the structure of which can be seen in Annwfn and is also the game's loading icon.

The entire physical layout of Eg-Lana can be worked out from Brahma, and includes many interesting revelations such as that the locations of the Corridor of Blood doors are actually correct (though offset a bit from the "veins" that appear during the End), Nibiru is indeed offset by half a room (as you launch from the center of the 2x2 pyramid room), many doors directly line up with their destinations, and the infernal fiend really does bite into the neck of the dragon.