Fastest LP gain per hour?

[Satori]

Hey all, thought I'd start a topic on what methods everybody uses to gain LP.

For me, I find that mass crafting glass bottles gives decent LP. It's starting to get rough though in T3.

Anyone got a better method than mass crafting glass / glass bottles? I've made 500 of em and it's getting old haha.

I'm completely out of ash and it's tedious picking up twigs off the ground to get it.

Thanks!

[AtomicTorch Studio]

Well, the fastest way would obviously be doing quests, especially early on.

But aside from that - LP is given in proportion to all of your skill gains. And it is adjusted such that there isn't a single activity that gives the most LP, it is more or less balanced in proportion to the amount of time and effort.

Normally you would just play the game and slowly gain LP as you progress :)

[Satori]

Yes, I'm saying once you're at like quest 43/46 like me, then questing is no longer the best LP gain / hour.

And idk about that - LP gain is incredibly slow if you just play the game and ignore it completely. For example crafting a full stack of 100 of something like flux powder often gives about 10 LP and you need 250 for a single skill...

I've farmed 100 trees at one time, and the LP gains were similarly crazy low.

When you're trying to get to tier 3 pistols as quickly as possible and can't afford it, this is a problem, and you want to just know how to quickly gain LP.

Considering LP is the primary way to "tech up" and there are so many inefficient ways to gain LP, simply saying "you get it by playing the game" isn't enough.

Sure some players may be happy gaining 25 LP an hour, but I think most would like it to be optimized.

The activities clearly aren't balanced - some items give 0.01 LP gain per item while others give almost 1 LP per item. So it's inaccurate to say you'd just play the game to increase it.

I'm out of stuff to craft; I need more LP to tech up. So I need to know the most efficient way to get it. I have a t2 gun and leather armor, there's nothing more for me to get until I get like 500 more LP. And that is looking like a monstrous task if I have to do it by making glass bottles.

[Satori]

Specifically I need to get defense 3, the technologies inside of it, then several technologies in offense 3. Roughly adds up to 500 LP. And that's just to make a gun and some armor...

If I want to tech up further (which I do) I'm looking at thousands and thousands of LP, and not much to craft in the meantime. So "just playing the game" won't work. I need to know a specific method to gain LP.

[ai_enabled]

We've talked with dozens of players regarding the LP gain and balancing (we're constantly gathering the player feedback in order to improve the balance). Most players on T3-T4 are gaining about 150-250 LP/hour without quests (on a server with normal x1 rates). Woodcutting and mining actually providing a decent LP (with certain ways to maximize it as I'll explain below), and, as you need a lot of materials anyway, it's one of the best ways to gain LP. Plus you always need to craft something from these materials, so try to keep your crafting queue full. As you're going for the resources you will meet hostile creatures—killing and looting them is another important LP bonus. That's why we're always telling "just play the game".

However, there are some important ways to maximize LP gain. Obviously, you need to use the best tools (steel axe and pickaxe). Farming provides you with the special ingredients which you can cook to get buffs ("Hearty food" increases on 10% almost every action speed including mining/woodcutting) or craft into other important boosts (cigars providing 10% movement speed increase). Plus you can craft a strength boost which is increasing on additional 50% the speed of woodcutting and mining. With all things combined, you will have much higher efficiency and much higher LP gain. And farming skill itself provides a nice LP bonus.

Regarding the crafting skill—currenty every recipe providing 1 XP (for crafting skill) when the item is crafted, plus 2 XP per second (from the original recipes duration, so higher crafting speed doesn't affect how much LP you get, in fact it only makes the gain faster, since you effectively can craft more and faster). So currently the best way to get most LP from crafting is crafting many small items (such as planks). We're planning to assign value to recipes to make certain recipes providing much more LP (according to the tech level, for example).

Regards!

[Satori]

I think that number depends on exactly what you're doing.

I like to focus on gathering a ton, and then crafting a ton, and then gathering a ton, and then crafting a ton.

Doing that, if I'm not deliberately maximizing LP gains consciously, I can tell you I get much less than 100 LP per hour guaranteed. And that feels extremely painful and frustrating.

Watching my LP crawl from 20 to 50 is not fun.

Crafting something for the sake of LP gain is not fun. I am a purpose driven crafter. I make stuff because it has a use to me. Presently, there isn't much I can make that is actually useful to me. This disincentivizes me to play the game.

Yes, I would buff LP gains for crafting higher tier items and materials, for sure.

The system needs a rework. It should not be this hard to figure out how to progress effectively and in a non-frustrating manner.

[Satori]

Also, if you don't mind, I suggest you read my post in the ideas board. I had some suggestions / ideas that I think might be helpful in alleviating stuff like this.

Also, a lot of the potions etc are too difficult to make for too small of an effect. A 10% bonus for 2 minutes or whatever isn't exciting or motivating enough to make me go spend 5-10 minutes gathering the mats to craft it.

[ai_enabled]

Getting 100 LP per hour is too low and you definitely not exploring the whole potential of the game.

Also, a lot of the potions etc are too difficult to make for too small of an effect. A 10% bonus for 2 minutes or whatever isn't exciting or motivating enough to make me go spend 5-10 minutes gathering the mats to craft it.

Let's see.
Strength boost requires coffee beans, toxin, red herb, and bottle with water. You can gather them while simply playing the game and running between the resource spots (such as mountains with minerals), by also doing hunting and foraging on the way. You just need to process coffee berries into beans, get some water (you still doing this regularly in order to not die from thirst), and then craft the boost. Single big strength boost provides 7 minutes of x2 woodcutting/mining/crafting speed (basically x2 your LP for 7 minutes).
Stew provides good food value (so you don't need to worry about hunger) and decent +10% actions speed boost for 5 minutes. It requires just some raw meat and roasted mushrooms (and you get extra LP for hunting, looting, and gathering), tomato and chili (which are very easy to grow and you will also get extra LP for farming, including watering and harvesting). There are other cooked foods providing the same effect so you can experiment and figure out which one works best for you.
Cigars require aged and dried tobacco which is also pretty easy to produce (though it takes time to grow and age, but it doesn't much of your time to plant, water and harvest them). +10 movement speed is very helpful if you try it...

Of course, we can remove these things altogether and simply make the LP rate x2 :-) , but this will make the game bland and even more grindy as your whole activity will focus solely on resource gathering...We're trying to make a deep game where players can experiment and be rewarded for their smart approaches, and have plenty of various activity (with more (such as beekeeping and fishing) coming in the future updates).

Honestly, we don't hear much criticism regarding the grind since the latest update. There was way more negative feedback regarding it when we released the game, but since then we've released 3 major updates and dozens of small patches. Now, new players usually figuring out how to maximize their LP gain, tried some of the aforementioned ways, and enjoying the game.

Regards!

[Satori]

Originally posted by ai_enabled:

Getting 100 LP per hour is too low and you definitely not exploring the whole potential of the game.

Also, a lot of the potions etc are too difficult to make for too small of an effect. A 10% bonus for 2 minutes or whatever isn't exciting or motivating enough to make me go spend 5-10 minutes gathering the mats to craft it.

Let's see.
Strength boost requires coffee beans, toxin, red herb, and bottle with water. You can gather them while simply playing the game and running between the resource spots (such as mountains with minerals), by also doing hunting and foraging on the way. You just need to process coffee berries into beans, get some water (you still doing this regularly in order to not die from thirst), and then craft the boost. Single big strength boost provides 7 minutes of x2 woodcutting/mining/crafting speed (basically x2 your LP for 7 minutes).
Stew provides good food value (so you don't need to worry about hunger) and decent +10% actions speed boost for 5 minutes. It requires just some raw meat and roasted mushrooms (and you get extra LP for hunting, looting, and gathering), tomato and chili (which are very easy to grow and you will also get extra LP for farming, including watering and harvesting). There are other cooked foods providing the same effect so you can experiment and figure out which one works best for you.
Cigars require aged and dried tobacco which is also pretty easy to produce (though it takes time to grow and age, but it doesn't much of your time to plant, water and harvest them). +10 movement speed is very helpful if you try it...

Of course, we can remove these things altogether and simply make the LP rate x2 :-) , but this will make the game bland and even more grindy as your whole activity will focus solely on resource gathering...We're trying to make a deep game where players can experiment and be rewarded for their smart approaches, and have plenty of various activity (with more (such as beekeeping and fishing) coming in the future updates).

Honestly, we don't hear much criticism regarding the grind since the latest update. There was way more negative feedback regarding it when we released the game, but since then we've released 3 major updates and dozens of small patches. Now, new players usually figuring out how to maximize their LP gain, tried some of the aforementioned ways, and enjoying the game.

Regards!

For sure, and given your goal of having a variety of ways to gain LP, it seems odd that only a few result in decent LP gains of 300+/hour.

As mentioned in the other thread, for example try harvesting Iron and turning them into Iron Ingots for LP. It's an awful grind.

I feel like the process needs to be waaaaay more straightforward and intuitive to figure out than it currently is.

LP gains per hour shouldn't really be based on what resource you're gathering, it should be based on the ***tier*** of resource you're gathering/assembling.

Example:

Tier 0: Gathering (Gathering stone, gathering twigs, gathering iron, whatever)

Tier I: Basic refining/cooking/farming (Iron to Iron Ingots, cooking meat on a campfire, growing bell peppers, turning basic resources into gunpowder etc)

Tier II: Advanced refining, cooking, farming and chemistry (Copper & Iron to Steel, more advanced cooking recipes, converting bell peppers or wheat to seeds, creating smokeless powder etc.

Each tier should give a higher bonus to LP than the previous, and it should be generous/noticeable. So players can go "Ahhh, so if I create the next tier of stuff, I get more LP!"

Given your design goals of freedom of choice and giving players multiple ways to get LP I think this would be the way to go.

Additionally, this gives you guys opportunities to create more new, interesting items and recipes for the game, should you so choose. You could have a chemical that increases the speed of furnaces by 20% and reduces fuel consumed by 50% or something. That would now be useful because players can gain the same LP from the furnace as anything else in its tier.

Players would also like this, because it prevents min/maxing, allowing more freedom and letting the players do what they want rather than feeling like they have to grind 1 or 2 things just to get LP.

[Niko ★]

@Satori, Why do you continue to whine? The developers have already explained you everything.
Don't you think you are asking for a bit too much? "Make the game how I WANT IT".
Before making suggestions about chancing fundamental balance - how about you actually learn the game first and THEN make suggestions?
I hate to say it, but the answer is essentially "git gud". This is a very deep game with a lot of freedom. If you are used to games where you are told what to do... or spoon fed the progress to make you feel good... maybe CryoFall is not for you.

[ai_enabled]

@Niko, well, we're fine with reading feedback and suggestions as they help us to better understand each player's experience with the game and consider improvements (for example we've decided to fix the aforementioned problem with the crafting of the small items being more rewarding than crafting of the larger items).
I would only agree that the game requires more experimentation and exploration...


@Satori, regarding "farming LP by making Iron Ingots for example"—usage of manufacturing buildings (such as a furnace) doesn't reward any LP. However, mining is already providing reasonably good LP.

Let me elaborate on our concept and idea behind the LP system in CryoFall. Our idea is that all actions providing similar LP reward for a similar player's effort. The LP gain speed is also specifically made to not differ by the technical level of stuff involved if the player's effort is comparable. But if the effort is larger, the reward is also larger—e.g. an iron rock takes more time than a pile of sand, the players rewarded proportionally more LP for mining it (though I need to note that LP reward for mining a rock with primitive tools vs steel tools is the same as effort is considered to be the same despite improved efficiency).

The important thing I forgot to mention is that the game has an LP boost applied depending on the skill level (lower skill level=higher boost). If the skill is maxed out, player rewarded with much less LP for the skill's action—but in the most cases it's balanced by much-increased efficiency (e.g. mining action is performed much faster thanks to the higher skill, plus at the time player max it out, usually it's not a problem to obtain steel tools and craft boosts as I've mentioned before). This way it's not possible to stick to a single activity and grind it for max LP—the game is self-balancing and encouraging players to explore all skills and try all stuff in the game.
There is no need to max-out everything but trying everything is very beneficial for the LP. For example, some players neglect to loot the rad towns, but it provides plenty of LP early thanks to the LP gain boost. Same goes for farming and basically every other skill.
To help high-level/T4 players, there is a "Learning" skill which helps to gain more LP on the later stages of the game (as you unlock and level-up more skills, it will provide a pretty decent LP gain bonus (up to +30% as from the skill's description) for any skill activity in the game). Though, it's a new feature and we're still balancing it.

So, there is no single best way of how to maximize the LP gain (it depends very much on an actual character's skill levels and available tools), but the game will certainly reward players who are willing to explore and experiment. By this, we assume "just playing the game"—as, naturally, players want to explore the game completely. The primary reason for the excessive grind usually is if a player trying to grind for LP by performing the same action again and again, and neglect everything else.

We might consider improving the system, but currently, we don't have a straightforward solution other than measuring the players' feedback again and adjusting the balance—which we're planning to do anyway for every major update (roughly every 6 weeks).

Regards!

[ai_enabled]

After further discussion with several other players and investigating their skills and LP rates, we've made balancing changes in the patch released yesterday. The changes will increase LP gain for T3/T4 players via improved Learning skill (now providing up to +40% learning points gain bonus), and the skill itself will level up x2 faster. Though minor counter-balancing changes applied for woodcutting and crafting skills.

Further balancing changes which will improve progression speed for T3/T4 players (especially noticeable after finishing all the quests on T3) are planned for A24.

Regards!

[Satori]

Originally posted by Niko ★:

@Satori, Why do you continue to whine? The developers have already explained you everything.
Don't you think you are asking for a bit too much? "Make the game how I WANT IT".
Before making suggestions about chancing fundamental balance - how about you actually learn the game first and THEN make suggestions?
I hate to say it, but the answer is essentially "git gud". This is a very deep game with a lot of freedom. If you are used to games where you are told what to do... or spoon fed the progress to make you feel good... maybe CryoFall is not for you.

@Niko, your childish 12 year old, disrespectful and immature arguments don't really bother me.

I suggest you go back to analyzing CS: GO games rather than spending your time trolling people in forums. I'm sure the other 13 y/os will welcome you there.

I have 45 hours played in the game and still didn't understand fundamental mechanics. I'm not the only one, as if you spent even 5 minutes researching this, you'd see people in the reviews section saying they refunded the game for the same thing.

I was giving my input with the desire to help the developers. I wasn't "whining".

You on the other hand are being childish, derogatory and immature. I have no more to say to you, or in this thread. My point was made, it's been addressed and you can go back to being a sh*tty person to other people.

Good luck in life with that attitude, let me know how McDonald's treats you.

Bye.

[Heart in Flowers]

@satori

Your last reply was quite hypocritical and far more toxic than who you were responding to, who was being comparatively nice to you.

It's amazing seeing the devs take the time to reply to their community like this but have to spend time with people like you.

I don't want to tell the developers to cherry pick their audience and who they listen to, but players like Satori want to be coddled and pandered to and I hope you receive their feedback far less than those who are more constructive and supportive not only of the developers, but of their fellow community.

[AtomicTorch Studio]

It can sometimes be difficult to meet everyone's expectations, especially when people haven't played the game much yet and don't yet realize that some suggestions they make might simply not work or actually be detrimental to the game.

But we still try to listen to everyone, because even "incorrect" feedback is still useful as there is always a reason why that feedback is given. So, we might not do what the people ask, but instead do something completely different what actually addresses the real problem and not what people think the problem is :)

Bottom line is - we have our specific vision for the game what we try to achieve and we try to gather as much feedback as we can to see if the progress we make actually aligns with what people are experiencing in the game. Hopefully with more people playing the game and more feedback we can achieve what we plan for the game :)

[pgames-food]

hi i like the fact that some of my Pve friends can race ahead in tech like weapons and armour, while still allowing me to try farming and cooking (and still gaining some LP).

the only downside to the asteroid events is that everyone with a hoverboard zooms there and get them first, and usually they dont spawn near to me so there isnt much point in going there.

im not sure what the game does behind the scenes, but maybe some kind of mechanic could be useful, so that if a particular player does not get any asteroid event items (while other players do), maybe they can have even just 1 asteroid land not too far from them to let them get one from time to time :)