Lore Question: So is it Usonia or America?

[Lestrad]

Just wanting to clear up some major inconsistencies with the lore regarding the new (as marketed) Usonian faction. In the menus and codex, the faction is named Usonia. However, at many points in the voiced dialogue, America and Americans are used. This is something you do not see for any of the other factions. Gunter says Saxony and Saxonians (not Germans), Anna says Polania and Polanians, etc.

Usonia is the only faction where the characters do not address it by the very name the lore has given them. Further more, in Admiral Mason's bio in the codex, both America and Usonia are used.

Am I playing Usonia or America? If the menus and marketing are right, and I am playing Usonia, who and where is America, and why do the Usonians care about them, seemingly over the Usonian people? If the dialogue is right, and I'm playing America (and not Usonia), then the name should be changed to reflect that.

It just comes off as pretty inconsistent and confusing (like they couldn't decide which one to use, so they used both). I think this also goes to show that they might have been better off using an established faction within the world of Scythe.

[koimeiji]

It's both.

Usonians are Americans.

Back in 1903, James Duff Law (an American writer) postulated that the USA had no right to call themselves "Americans" when Canada and Mexico existed, and such should instead be called "Usonian" (that is, US-onian. United States...onian)

IRL, the term didn't catch on as you can probably tell.

1920+ shows that it did; however, because the term only came up in 1903, it's likely the country and world at large are still getting used to calling the USA "Usonia"; thus it's both.


TL;DR: The country is still the USA, the people are still Americans. They're just in the process of rebranding themselves as Usonia.

[Sheep_wielder]

Check out the Lore video by Templin Intitute, hopefully that helps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJ5tPvKxUk

[Vovin]

After playing some of the campaign missions, it does kinda seem off... however, the Arab leader says it often probably as a smug remark, since she lives out in the desert and didn't really care for global affairs. I think the other poster is right in that Usonia is a rebrand, which is probably what the developers were going for.

[Elliott]

I would have liked Columbia which was a pretty good contender for naming the country for ahwhile until the South American country claimed it. But then Bioshock Infinite used that name for the floating city.

[Vovin]

Originally posted by Elliott:

I would have liked Columbia which was a pretty good contender for naming the country for ahwhile until the South American country claimed it. But then Bioshock Infinite used that name for the floating city.

Well, the country is called Colombia. Columbia is a good name, don't get me wrong, but my impression is that in science fiction it often refers specifically to the American Northwest (where the Columbia River is). I think that's where it originally existed in BI before they seceded from the rest of the USA.

[Lestrad]

Originally posted by Sheep_wielder:

Check out the Lore video by Templin Intitute, hopefully that helps:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcJ5tPvKxUk

Not really. Shame there's not a world map outside of the official Europa map for Scythe. Geographically, yes, Usonia is on the North American continent. But if Usonians are calling themselves Americans simply because there living on the continent of America, then by that metric the people of the other two nations (Canada and Mexico?) mentioned in the video are also Americans.

Canadians don't call themselves Americans, any more than Brazilians would call themselves Americans. The people of Usonia should have been called Usonians to be in line and lore consistant with Saxony/Saxonians, Polania/Polanians, Rusviet/Rusviet.

The only possible and reasonable exception to the rule of consistency would have been the Tokugawa Shogunate. But only because it's obviously not the name of their country itself (unlike Polania, Saxony, Albion, Rusviet, etc). And as far as the -official- lore goes, I don't recall the actual name of the country ever being stated. Although the argument could also be made that "Tokugawan People" is not that awkward to say. Maybe someday we'll find out, there's not an actual map of the world yet outside of the official map for Europa. Fenris and Vesna/The Factory would have also had been reasonable cases as Vesna, is the woman's name and not her faction (the Factory). Likewise Fenris is a shadow organization like Spectre, not a state.

[Vovin]

Some of the Usonian units sound Canadian, say "eh" a lot (I am Canadian by the way, though these guys sound more eastern). Also, their helmets look a lot like Canadian WWI/WWII helmets, though I guess the American expeditionary forces used brodie helmets back in WWI as well.

I don't think the Shogunate would have made any sense in terms of European powers like Polania and Saxonia, but only with Rusviet in the Far East. Obviously the Shogunate would encounter Usonia, so maybe they are setting that up as well in the future.

And Fenris is definitely a shadow organisation, that is rather obvious. Their immediate goal is to take over Saxony and Rusviet (to use their military and resources for global conquest), and Polania was merely a puppet used to initiate war in order to justify the internal coups.

[Elliott]

I've thought to myself if we could have just one more faction for the game who would I pick?

With Usonia in the Shogunate is more appealing as it now has two potential enemies with Rusviet and Usonia without needing to justify their presence in Eastern Europe. They would probably be a good pick for sales as a Japanese faction would be quite popular I imagine.

Crimean Khanate and Nordic Kingdoms are the last two of the base game Scythe factions. Neither of them would be a bad option although I hope the Nordics design would not mirror their scythe counterpart as I understand they are very long range focused with their mechs? A faction that just blows you up before you even see them does not sound very fun especially for Rusviet!

[Horsie from Tonga(6th weeb king)]

Originally posted by ak47sforeverybody:

Some of the Usonian units sound Canadian, say "eh" a lot (I am Canadian by the way, though these guys sound more eastern). Also, their helmets look a lot like Canadian WWI/WWII helmets, though I guess the American expeditionary forces used brodie helmets back in WWI as well.

I don't think the Shogunate would have made any sense in terms of European powers like Polania and Saxonia, but only with Rusviet in the Far East. Obviously the Shogunate would encounter Usonia, so maybe they are setting that up as well in the future.

And Fenris is definitely a shadow organisation, that is rather obvious. Their immediate goal is to take over Saxony and Rusviet (to use their military and resources for global conquest), and Polania was merely a puppet used to initiate war in order to justify the internal coups.

The americans used Brodie helmets. Yeah. It could also be explained that Usonia annexed Canada so they could have some Canadian troops.

[Human72]

Originally posted by koimeiji:

It's both.

Usonians are Americans.

Back in 1903, James Duff Law (an American writer) postulated that the USA had no right to call themselves "Americans" when Canada and Mexico existed, and such should instead be called "Usonian" (that is, US-onian. United States...onian)

IRL, the term didn't catch on as you can probably tell.

1920+ shows that it did; however, because the term only came up in 1903, it's likely the country and world at large are still getting used to calling the USA "Usonia"; thus it's both.


TL;DR: The country is still the USA, the people are still Americans. They're just in the process of rebranding themselves as Usonia.

ah so that's what happened though i would say that not everyone will pick up on that and carry that rebranding hell they could go with the commonwealth approach and still go with the american thing just part of the larger usonia. if that is a thing.

so did james duff law actually stated that? if that is the case i may need to look that up.

[Blitzwing]

here is a world map its Canada+USA

https://preview.redd.it/q4voa4a5pjs51.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dde33ec69c69f592597de2a1f3d43b11ac5e8d3

[Vovin]

Originally posted by Horsie from Tonga:

The americans used Brodie helmets. Yeah. It could also be explained that Usonia annexed Canada so they could have some Canadian troops.

There's some commentary in that Rusviet mission where you run around the castle and listen to conversations. Some of the Americans talk about Manifest Territory and annexing Canada and Mexico.

[Vovin]

Originally posted by Blitzwing:

here is a world map its Canada+USA

https://preview.redd.it/q4voa4a5pjs51.jpg?width=1600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8dde33ec69c69f592597de2a1f3d43b11ac5e8d3

Interesting map, I wonder what its source is? I assume it's a fan made map, and seems like the hardcore fans get their lore from the board game which I know little of. I doubt the devs created that since it looks like it was made in MS Paint instead of GIS software.