Censorship: personal synthesis

[Red]

You probably already know Zanki Zero is censored on PS4 and Steam, now here's my stance on the subject based on everything I've read so far from both sides of the argument (and boy, are both extremes radical in their reasonings...). I just hope I won't forget anything, since there's quite a lot to say.

What was removed and caused an uproar were a CG containing a panty shot and child bedtime events (among other things, but these are the most talked about points). The first noticeable thing is that they entirely edited the CG to make sure you couldn't see below waist level, which looks kind of odd in my opinion. Then, the child bedtime events were apparently supposed to be joke events just like the ones with elderly characters, since they use the same poses and lines as events at other ages. Granted, none of this is very relevant to the story or character development since the events are apparently the same no matter the characters' age (according to this video), but that content is not harmful in itself either.

Now, opinions about this content aside, there are a few things that bother me. The game was announced to be delayed on February 13, and the news about what was changed dropped on February 28. It also got its rating at most on February 13, before they announced any changes. So either the publisher (not the developer, since they are separate branches) made the changes beforehand and waited before announcing them, or they submitted the game uncensored, in which case it means the game could have been released that way.

Then, the PC version is also censored while other games with seemingly arguable content were released uncensored. Senran Kagura Burst Re:Newal launched on January 22 on PC with a feature not available in the Western console version because of Sony's recent censorship policy (news here[marvelousgames.com]), and I assume it is part of what motivated the changes made to Zanki Zero, with Sony pressuring to have some content cut. Censoring a niche game is the best way to irritate and miss your target audience, and I believe Marvelous/XSeed did the right thing by releasing the game in its original state on Steam. By the way, SKBR's Steam version is not rated but indicates the console version's rating, just like the previous games in its series. Zanki Zero is not rated on PC either according to the ESRB's and PEGI's websites, so assuming Sony urged Spike Chunsoft to make changes, it could have been released uncensored here on Steam. Someone also mentioned IFI games at one point in a thread, and Monster Monpiece, one of their games, was released uncensored on PC after a censored Vita version in the West. And some of the censored cards are more likely to offend people than what was cut from Zanki Zero.

Thus, if censorship was inherent to the console version, there could (should, even) have been an option to toggle the controversial content on or off with "off" as the default setting in this Steam version for people aware of the cultural difference, unless Spike Chunsoft couldn't bother undoing it or Sony put some more pressure not to give PC players a version more true to the original. I assume the latter is what happened following SKBR's release, with the PC version likely hitting the Western PS4 version's sales thanks to a simultaneous release.

At the end of the day, people aren't necessarily complaining because of what was cut, but rather because of why, and the way it was handled. Such content is definitely questionable but most likely not bannable on Steam, and there have been multiple instances of games releasing uncensored on this platform while the console version cut content. Censorship is also fairly insidious (no matter what you censor) and tends to bring more censorship later down the road; Crystar might already be censored from the looks of the trailer, and it doesn't sound good for other upcoming Spike Chunsoft releases (AI: The Somnium Files likely being an exception, assuming Uchikoshi and SC can hold their promise to have the same uncensored game worldwide).


(Acts like a TL;DR:) Does it affect how the game plays or how the story is told? Apparently not. But does it sour the mood to know it's been censored while the removed content was not as harmful as it's claimed? Your mileage may vary, but it does for me not because I care about what was cut out, but because of the decision not to release an uncensored version on PC while it would have been possible.

Also, I've already said that, but niche games and censorship don't tend to go well together, and when it's applied to a game like Zanki Zero with next to no PR and a fairly high price point for a AA game, it's almost a commercial suicide in my opinion.

Have a nice day, folks.

[Chaika Trabant]

Good post, mods are currently asleep but I fully expect the thread to be gone soon.

[Red]

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

Good post, mods are currently asleep but I fully expect the thread to be gone soon.

Thanks! I sincerely hope they won't remove it though, unless they really want to add salt to the injury and show they can't take criticism. And no, I'm not implying it's already the case, but the way they've handled things up until now certainly didn't help with the still ongoing flame wars (which I hope won't be brought here either).

[ANDS!]

Originally posted by (Corne)Red (suddenly plays):

Originally posted by Chaika Trabant:

Good post, mods are currently asleep but I fully expect the thread to be gone soon.

Thanks! I sincerely hope they won't remove it though, unless they really want to add salt to the injury and show they can't take criticism. And no, I'm not implying it's already the case, but the way they've handled things up until now certainly didn't help with the still ongoing flame wars (which I hope won't be brought here either).

. . .or they don't want the entire front community page clogged up with people upset about this issue. There are numerous posts on this already.

[Red]

Originally posted by ANDS!:

Originally posted by (Corne)Red (suddenly plays):

Thanks! I sincerely hope they won't remove it though, unless they really want to add salt to the injury and show they can't take criticism. And no, I'm not implying it's already the case, but the way they've handled things up until now certainly didn't help with the still ongoing flame wars (which I hope won't be brought here either).

. . .or they don't want the entire front community page clogged up with people upset about this issue. There are numerous posts on this already.

To be fair, they kind of brought this onto themselves by not replying to the community and fusing threads about censorship instead...

Also sure, there are several topics about this already, but I tried doing a full analysis of the situation here instead of just taking sides and saying "censorship is bad, don't buy". If you think I'm adding clutter to the front community and forum pages, guess it can't be helped, that's how opinions work.

[ANDS!]

I don't think you've done any particular analysis that hasn't already been done and, as with most of these other posts, miss the point entirely. Which is why I suggested that this should just be folded into another thread.

Also. . .what does Spike Chunsoft owe anyone other than the clear and obvious reasons for the content changes?

[Complete Domination]

Originally posted by ANDS!:

I don't think you've done any particular analysis that hasn't already been done and, as with most of these other posts, miss the point entirely. Which is why I suggested that this should just be folded into another thread.

Also. . .what does Spike Chunsoft owe anyone other than the clear and obvious reasons for the content changes?

And what might these clear and obvious reasons be,aside from bringing political agenda into people's hobby ? Full game is legal in the glorious land of nippon,so do tell us what kind of things would make it illegal here ?

Originally posted by (Corne)Red (suddenly plays):

Originally posted by ANDS!:

. . .or they don't want the entire front community page clogged up with people upset about this issue. There are numerous posts on this already.

To be fair, they kind of brought this onto themselves by not replying to the community and fusing threads about censorship instead...

Also sure, there are several topics about this already, but I tried doing a full analysis of the situation here instead of just taking sides and saying "censorship is bad, don't buy". If you think I'm adding clutter to the front community and forum pages, guess it can't be helped, that's how opinions work.

It's pointless to say anything about this issue to this company,evidently they have joined on the mad crusade of trying to dictate what people can and can't do in their hobby. Ever since the first day they've been rabidly deleting any comments and threads that don't align with their view of censorship. Along with a bunch of moral squad for cartoon censorship they had been employing the favorite tactics of shutting arguments down with "pedo" accusation without any other sane responses,like how some crazy sjws keep shouting the same thing over and over,to the point of scaring people away from trying to talk back to them.

And yes,this thread is due for deletion any time now. Just make sure to spread the word and boycott their products. As much as a cancer they are,a corporate is still a corporate so without money it dies. Let them dig their own grave.

[Red]

Originally posted by ANDS!:

I don't think you've done any particular analysis that hasn't already been done and, as with most of these other posts, miss the point entirely. Which is why I suggested that this should just be folded into another thread.

Also. . .what does Spike Chunsoft owe anyone other than the clear and obvious reasons for the content changes?

Well, I did mention I made my analysis based on what I've read all over these forums, but I also agreed with the pro-censorship side saying what has been censored effectively does not matter much at the end of the day. As for how I "miss the point entirely", it sounds like an easy and practical way to try and dismiss the entire post without having to actually say anything, yet it doesn't tell what point I'm missing exactly.

And Spike Chunsoft doesn't owe anything to anyone, sure, but the way they've acted and reacted makes me think they should give PC players an explanation regarding why the content was cut even though the game is not rated on Steam and the platform is less strict than console holders when it comes to what you can and cannot publish. I mean, rather than trying to sidestep the issue by doing nothing aside from merging threads.

Originally posted by (Corne)Red (suddenly plays):

At the end of the day, people aren't necessarily complaining because of what was cut, but rather because of why, and the way it was handled.

[Red]

Originally posted by Complete Domination:

Originally posted by ANDS!:

I don't think you've done any particular analysis that hasn't already been done and, as with most of these other posts, miss the point entirely. Which is why I suggested that this should just be folded into another thread.

Also. . .what does Spike Chunsoft owe anyone other than the clear and obvious reasons for the content changes?

And what might these clear and obvious reasons be,aside from bringing political agenda into people's hobby ? Full game is legal in the glorious land of nippon,so do tell us what kind of things would make it illegal here ?

Welp, here it really starts again... I mean, ANDS! already came here to basically say this thread was useless, but that's really like opening fire again.

Originally posted by Complete Domination:

Originally posted by (Corne)Red (suddenly plays):

To be fair, they kind of brought this onto themselves by not replying to the community and fusing threads about censorship instead...

Also sure, there are several topics about this already, but I tried doing a full analysis of the situation here instead of just taking sides and saying "censorship is bad, don't buy". If you think I'm adding clutter to the front community and forum pages, guess it can't be helped, that's how opinions work.

It's pointless to say anything about this issue to this company,evidently they have joined on the mad crusade of trying to dictate what people can and can't do in their hobby. Ever since the first day they've been rabidly deleting any comments and threads that don't align with their view of censorship. Along with a bunch of moral squad for cartoon censorship they had been employing the favorite tactics of shutting arguments down with "pedo" accusation without any other sane responses,like how some crazy sjws keep shouting the same thing over and over,to the point of scaring people away from trying to talk back to them.

And yes,this thread is due for deletion any time now. Just make sure to spread the word and boycott their products. As much as a cancer they are,a corporate is still a corporate so without money it dies. Let them dig their own grave.

If this thread gets deleted or merged with other posts, they'll likely lose an extra sale. I'm still on the fence to buy it and check whether it would be possible to restore content or not (because even though it's fairly light censorship and I don't care for the cut content, it's still called censorship for a reason) and get the OST. Not a big threat in itself but sum up all of the people wondering why the PC version is held to the console standards thus give it a pass and it's a fairly big loss for SC.

[poperboy]

Very well written post and even though I agree that the cut content COULD be useless, it's still content the developer intended to include in the game (and did include in the JP version) but willingly removed when there was no reason to.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by ANDS!:

Also. . .what does Spike Chunsoft owe anyone other than the clear and obvious reasons for the content changes?

An explanation of why the Steam version is censored when it didn't need to be, which is what I tried to get out of them before people hijacked my thread and got it closed for arguing.

[Red]

Originally posted by poperboy:

Very well written post and even though I agree that the cut content COULD be useless, it's still content the developer intended to include in the game (and did include in the JP version) but willingly removed when there was no reason to.

Thanks! And yep, cut content is still content that was supposed to be there. If the publisher doesn't want to show it to everyone by default, it should still be reasonable to expect a toggleable setting unless it really is legally questionable (which in this case it is not and meant to come off as a joke).

[fejota]

Nice post from OP.
I liked the idea of making a toogle to censor / uncensor the game in the Steam version and everyone would be happy.
Or maybe low-key offering a uncensoring patch outside of steam.

[Power_Bert]

Im just afraid that they did make changes to the story and characters where the content was deemed too "risky". This game seems to handle some adult and problematic themes and i dont want to spend 60€ to get some watered down version.
Those underage pantyshots and bedtime pictures were good to go, but they could have easily replaced them with something different instead of deleting them.

[Erebus]

Originally posted by fejota:

Nice post from OP.
I liked the idea of making a toogle to censor / uncensor the game in the Steam version and everyone would be happy.
Or maybe low-key offering a uncensoring patch outside of steam.

Nah, that's not doable. That'd turn what seems like joke content into something else entirely.

[Red]

Originally posted by fejota:

Nice post from OP.
I liked the idea of making a toogle to censor / uncensor the game in the Steam version and everyone would be happy.
Or maybe low-key offering a uncensoring patch outside of steam.

Thanks! And someone else talked about it on another thread before I did, though I can't say I didn't have the idea to have it as an optional feature either, so... Shared idea, I guess?

Originally posted by Erebus:

Nah, that's not doable. That'd turn what seems like joke content into something else entirely.

It's true that it would make the content stand out as "Censored, activate at your own risk!"... At least, if it's improperly labelled. Maybe "original version" or something would be better?

Originally posted by Power_Bert:

Im just afraid that they did make changes to the story and characters where the content was deemed too "risky". This game seems to handle some adult and problematic themes and i dont want to spend 60€ to get some watered down version.
Those underage pantyshots and bedtime pictures were good to go, but they could have easily replaced them with something different instead of deleting them.

It's easier, faster and less expensive to sweep something under the rug than to remake entire CGs for instance, but they could have come up with a more original way of editing that.