About the censorship

[SinglePoorIan]

If you see threads about this "complaint" Spike is very forward with what they removed: https://www.spike-chunsoft.com/news/zanki-zero-last-beginning-western-release-changes/

They removed the sexualiztion of minors, thats it. Other than that the story and content are in tact. Don't let these 3DPD gamers gamers say otherwise.

[Shylaar]

They're not forward with what they removed because they also altered dialogue in the first censored Sachika scene to remove mention of her panties, so the censorship goes beyond what they stated. This is also the only scene that was in the demo so we don't know if there are similar changes made to other scenes.
You're also spamming this in every thread and latching real hard onto the sexualisation of minors argument while ignoring that it's not real and censorship is bad regardless of the content. I'd be arguing against it if they'd removed the old age scenes instead.

[SinglePoorIan]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

They're not forward with what they removed because they also altered dialogue in the first censored Sachika scene to remove mention of her panties, so the censorship goes beyond what they stated. This is also the only scene that was in the demo so we don't know if there are similar changes made to other scenes.
You're also spamming this in every thread and latching real hard onto the sexualisation of minors argument while ignoring that it's not real and censorship is bad regardless of the content. I'd be arguing against it if they'd removed the old age scenes instead.

Proof? I going by what is posted but if you have comparison shots and not hearsay I want to see it. Also, a female showing their panties is not a sexual act, that's a hard argument to make.

I also expect localization changes for each region since not all dialog or jokes or whatever would make sense.

[Soak]

It's crazy the amount of people who want sexual children in their games... I just dont get it, like I get it censorship can be bad, but is this the bridge people wanna die on? to have borderline CP in a game?

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by Blue Jay Blue Balls:

Proof? I going by what is posted but if you have comparison shots and not hearsay I want to see it.

https://youtu.be/74ZDAAFtkzY?t=1051
https://youtu.be/VHVMZVAkcf4?t=4186
Timestamps included.

Also, a female showing their panties is not a sexual act, that's a hard argument to make.

What the hell are you talking about?

I also expect localization changes for each region since not all dialog or jokes or whatever would make sense.

I wasn't aware that wearing panties wouldn't make sense to American audiences.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by Soak:

It's crazy the amount of people who want sexual children in their games... I just dont get it, like I get it censorship can be bad, but is this the bridge people wanna die on? to have borderline CP in a game?

"I get it censorship can be bad but I don't like this so I'm ok with the censorship"
Why do you guys always say this? You're not opposed to censorship at all. And it's also a pretty far cry from "borderline CP" so misrepresenting the content doesn't do you any favours.

[A Wispy Willy]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Originally posted by Soak:

It's crazy the amount of people who want sexual children in their games... I just dont get it, like I get it censorship can be bad, but is this the bridge people wanna die on? to have borderline CP in a game?

"I get it censorship can be bad but I don't like this so I'm ok with the censorship"
Why do you guys always say this? You're not opposed to censorship at all. And it's also a pretty far cry from "borderline CP" so misrepresenting the content doesn't do you any favours.

Because someone can be opposed to pointless censorship and in turn understand why something else might need to be.

It's not a slippery slope. It's defining what should be censored and what shouldn't be. You might have an argument if anything other than what Spike Chunsoft has commented out outside of removing references to changed CGs has been censored. Otherwise, it's fine and shouldn't have been in the game in the first place anyway.

[SinglePoorIan]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Originally posted by Blue Jay Blue Balls:

Proof? I going by what is posted but if you have comparison shots and not hearsay I want to see it.

https://youtu.be/74ZDAAFtkzY?t=1051
https://youtu.be/VHVMZVAkcf4?t=4186
Timestamps included.

Also, a female showing their panties is not a sexual act, that's a hard argument to make.

What the hell are you talking about?

I also expect localization changes for each region since not all dialog or jokes or whatever would make sense.

I wasn't aware that wearing panties wouldn't make sense to American audiences.

Thanks, and that really really doesnt change the story, the important information is the key in her stomach. The panty shot is just part of the fan service like all of those unnecessary angles they use in anime. It doesn't add anything to the scene other than fap material which rule34 can make plenty of without it. The example you provided reaffirms my position, what was removed wasnt important to the story anyways.

BTW for others, steam doesnt respect the timestamps, the likes he provided are /https://youtu.be/74ZDAAFtkzY?t=1051 and /https://youtu.be/VHVMZVAkcf4?t=4186

Also, a panty flash is a very sexual act that you claim "sexualisation of minors argument while ignoring that it's not real"

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by A Wispy Willy:

Because someone can be opposed to pointless censorship and in turn understand why something else might need to be.

It "might need to be" on Sony's platforms. It certainly doesn't need to be on Steam where there are no rating requirements and Steam is not banning anything except for eroge and one visual novel that wasn't an eroge but was about a paedophile teacher and had art by a loli mangaka.

It's not a slippery slope. It's defining what should be censored and what shouldn't be.

Accepting censorship is a slippery slope because it only ever gets worse. What should be censored is nothing.

You might have an argument if anything other than what Spike Chunsoft has commented out outside of removing references to changed CGs has been censored.

Ah yes, now we're arguing that the unannounced censorship of the script is ok because it's reflecting the censored CG. Except that she's obviously still showing the MC her panties in the censored CG, unless you're thinking that she's actually naked under there now, or her entire bottom half phased out of existence entirely, which are both equally absurd justifications.

Otherwise, it's fine and shouldn't have been in the game in the first place anyway.

That's not your decision to make, but at least you are making it clear that you have no respect for the original developers.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by Blue Jay Blue Balls:

Thanks, and that really really doesnt change the story, the important information is the key in her stomach. The panty shot is just part of the fan service like all of those unnecessary angles they use in anime. It doesn't add anything to the scene other than fap material which rule34 can make plenty of without it. The example you provided reaffirms my position, what was removed wasnt important to the story anyways.

BTW for others, steam doesnt respect the timestamps, the likes he provided are /https://youtu.be/74ZDAAFtkzY?t=1051 and /https://youtu.be/VHVMZVAkcf4?t=4186

No one said it changed the story. People said that it was additional censorship which wasn't stated by Spike Chunsoft, and it is.

[SinglePoorIan]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Originally posted by Blue Jay Blue Balls:

Thanks, and that really really doesnt change the story, the important information is the key in her stomach. The panty shot is just part of the fan service like all of those unnecessary angles they use in anime. It doesn't add anything to the scene other than fap material which rule34 can make plenty of without it. The example you provided reaffirms my position, what was removed wasnt important to the story anyways.

BTW for others, steam doesnt respect the timestamps, the likes he provided are /https://youtu.be/74ZDAAFtkzY?t=1051 and /https://youtu.be/VHVMZVAkcf4?t=4186

No one said it changed the story. People said that it was additional censorship which wasn't stated by Spike Chunsoft, and it is.

"People have said" thats not proof, that's reddit logic. Prove it like you did with the videos, not only that prove that it has a negative impact on the story. The writing will change for the target audience, that's just how localization is. If you compare Harry Potter books in different languages you'll see the same thing.

[Shylaar]

You're the one who made the claim that people were saying it changed the story, mate. You know how burden of proof works, right? I didn't make that claim, but hey, I can point you back to my own post which I made before yours:

Originally posted by Shylaar:

They're not forward with what they removed because they also altered dialogue in the first censored Sachika scene to remove mention of her panties, so the censorship goes beyond what they stated.

Or you could just do us a favour and just admit that Spike Chunsoft were not entirely honest about what they censored instead of disingenuously trying to shift the topic to "well I don't think it was important".

[GUY]

2d Children MUST be protected, personally im against any form of censorship, except in certain cases...

[SinglePoorIan]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

You're the one who made the claim that people were saying it changed the story, mate. You know how burden of proof works, right? I didn't make that claim, but hey, I can point you back to my own post which I made before yours:

Originally posted by Shylaar:

They're not forward with what they removed because they also altered dialogue in the first censored Sachika scene to remove mention of her panties, so the censorship goes beyond what they stated.

Or you could just do us a favour and just admit that Spike Chunsoft were not entirely honest about what they censored instead of disingenuously trying to shift the topic to "well I don't think it was important".

No, the burden of proof is you you. Support your conspiracy theory, but you probably can't since you're arguing in bad faith. The dialog has to change to match the images, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. My proof is their offical statement which is all we have at the moment. Also, using the 30 minute japanese video you provided the games are pretty much identical, from what I can tell within 30 minutes.

[Shylaar]

Originally posted by Blue Jay Blue Balls:

No, the burden of proof is you you. Support your conspiracy theory, but you probably can't since you're arguing in bad faith. The dialog has to change to match the images, otherwise it wouldn't make sense. My proof is their offical statement which is all we have at the moment.

I'm arguing in bad faith by stating facts and not bringing up irrelevant non-sequiturs to justify censorship, and calling you out for doing so is a conspiracy theory. Ok.
The dialogue needing to change to match the images is an absurd justification and basically throws out any visual novel ever made because the entire medium is about using text to describe what's going on because the images don't.
Your proof is directly contradictory to the actual game which has again revealed that the censorship extends beyond the visuals which is all Spike Chunsoft shared with us.

[ANDS!]

Originally posted by Shylaar:

Accepting censorship is a slippery slope because it only ever gets worse. What should be censored is nothing.

It's not and you know it's not. There is no "slippery slope" involved when someone chooses to self censor not out of government or institutional pressure but from economical practicality.

How about this. What did Sachika's fan-service (who is a fan I have no idea) moment do for Western audiences attachment to the product?