[SPOILER] Thoughts about the story and the ending

[thorwyn2]

As we all know, people criticize what they dislike more than they praise what they like, and here I am …

tl;dr Somewhat disappointed, although I had a lot of fun. The mechanics said Spellforce, but the story and the world did not.


In Spellforce 3, I wasn’t excited about the God of Light, but it worked since it lead to the creation of the Circle. As a means to an end it was okay.

Soul Harvest: So the God of Light is the antagonist … again. Not the best design choice in my opinion, but it could work. What does “work” mean? We already know what will happen eventually: the expansion of the Circle (13 members), the discovery of the archfire and of the “prophecies” of the Convocation, the creation of the rune warriors, the Convocation wars. Plenty of stuff. For me, the God of Light and the surrounding story “work”, when they make anything of this happen and thus push the world towards the Convocation. These are the things that say “Spellforce”.

Well, none of this happens, and sometimes even the opposite. It’s a story about a more or less all-powerful being (though not powerful enough to enter the world on its own) that is too alien to really comprehend and that can’t be stopped in combat (although you did just that in Spellforce 3?). The whole game I was waiting for the Spellforce twist, hoping for something like a powerful enemy that could only be defeated by using the archfire that makes the Circle so powerful later on. That would have worked for me.

As it is, the story could just as well be set after Spellforce 2 instead of 500 years before. It could even be set in any generic fantasy setting. Why make a prequel when it doesn’t have any connection to the story we know? Of course it’s difficult to make an exciting prequel, because people already know what happens, but people still want to explore how it happened. Gamers are also known to be chronically conservative when it comes to “their” games, and in this regard I am just plain guilty when it comes to Spellforce. Soul Harvest did have some Spellforce aspects (after all, the Circle was already founded), but not enough and the aspects it had didn’t fit: The Circle is already breaking apart before it even has its 13 members. Isgrimm is in prison, why would they ever let him stay in it? Raith, too, just seems to become more alienated from the Circle. The whole Convocation story doesn’t progress at all, apart from Isgrimm using a rune once, but we already had that in Spellforce 3. Also, don’t you need the archfire for that? How did Isgrimm do it?
Then, at one point the Iron Fields are mentioned, but we don’t see the Shaikan. At one point a mysterious stranger comes from Empyria, but it isn’t Hokan (dammit, I’ve been hyped for Hokan for two years now). We come to Lar, but no word of Shal or Dragh’Lur. Missed opportunities. All in all, storywise Soul Harvest feels like a random (but very enjoyable!) fantasy game with the name Spellforce and some scattered lore elements glued to it, but not like a real Spellforce (damn, if there is a cult called the Purity of Spellforce, I should really join).

I had a lot of fun playing Soul Harvest, always on my toes waiting for the big Spellforce moment to kick in … but nothing happened, and the ending left me disappointed and even somewhat ruined the rest of the game retrospectively.

Your thoughts? I guess especially people who didn’t play SF 1+2 don’t bother that much. How did you experience the story and the ending?

[akatosh86]

in some regards, I agree...

I have no qualms with the narrative itself. In fact, it's better than SF1 or SF2, with more three-dimensional and relatable characters and interesting twists. However I agree that the plot feels rather like a homage to the Spellforce universe, than a story set in the Spellforce universe.
The original Spellforce story creator was a consultant, but I guess he also forgot to mention Shal, Dragh'Lur and other lore tidbits. Retcons happen in pretty much every universe and sometimes it's fine and makes the experience better, but I have a feeling that even the creator guy forgot some of the stuff. It's like GRRM calling up to some of the 'Ice and Fire' fanatics to remember some small details he himself forgot about his own universe. Except that Grimlore didn't really consult with Spellforce lore fanatics (I'm not exactly a die-hard fanatic, but I know there are some).
As for the story progression itself. Well, ideally I'd love to see several installments of SF3, with many old lore bits reintroduced slowly. After all, the corruption of the circle didn't happen overnight and it took 500 years until they got so power hungry that they literally tore the world apart. So, it would be unnatural to see all of this happen in the first couple of years. However, yeah - Soul Harvest didn't introduce a new 'big bad', despite the fact that the story itself was good and though-provoking too, in some regards (but, as you said, that could happen in any universe).

[Farlon]

Isgrimm was too valuable to just rot in prison or get executed, his research on the rune is what let him stay there + if your position was already high enough (like a circle mage), your war crimes can be, sadly, often excused and forgotten. Raith wasn't even part of the circle at the time of SF3 SH, he earns a seat there after his discovery and research on the City of Souls. The events in SH is what might actually lead him into it.

Originally posted by akatosh86:

Retcons happen in pretty much every universe and sometimes it's fine and makes the experience better, but I have a feeling that even the creator guy forgot some of the stuff. It's like GRRM calling up to some of the 'Ice and Fire' fanatics to remember some small details he himself forgot about his own universe. Except that Grimlore didn't really consult with Spellforce lore fanatics (I'm not exactly a die-hard fanatic, but I know there are some).

The original writer himself said he doesn't remember everything about the lore and forgot some stuff. It would make sense to consult with the die-hard fans of Spellforce, like Wormic, who is pretty much unofficial community loremaster at this point.

[NeoX]

TLTR: I hate this fanfiction-level story. Multiple lore breakes that can't really get fixed anymore. This game is on the same level as SpellForce 2 - Faith in Destiny.

More details: https://steamcommunity.com/app/817540/discussions/0/1642039362991852161/

Originally posted by Farlon:

Isgrimm was too valuable to just rot in prison or get executed, his research on the rune is what let him stay there + if your position was already high enough (like a circle mage), your war crimes can be, sadly, often excused and forgotten. Raith wasn't even part of the circle at the time of SF3 SH, he earns a seat there after his discovery and research on the City of Souls. The events in SH is what might actually lead him into it.

No it's just horrible story writing. Thats what happens if someone writes a story without knowing the original story or even playing the original games. Isgrim would have been killed at the end, but then someone came up to the "story writer" and said: "You can't do that, we need him in the next canon entry.". Then he just went to jail and was never talked about again. I bet whenever we get one more addon, this will be handled off-screen like "Tahar" now.

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by akatosh86:

Retcons happen in pretty much every universe and sometimes it's fine and makes the experience better, but I have a feeling that even the creator guy forgot some of the stuff. It's like GRRM calling up to some of the 'Ice and Fire' fanatics to remember some small details he himself forgot about his own universe. Except that Grimlore didn't really consult with Spellforce lore fanatics (I'm not exactly a die-hard fanatic, but I know there are some).

The original writer himself said he doesn't remember everything about the lore and forgot some stuff. It would make sense to consult with the die-hard fans of Spellforce, like Wormic, who is pretty much unofficial community loremaster at this point.

When did he say that? i think he was never really asked for such key-questions. Also i recommend the wikia main author. Wormic is great, but messes a lot of things up somethimes.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

...

So just because it's not a boring "circle mages were born big evil powerful bastards" it's bad writing? Alright. And no, they wouldn't execute a circle mage. Similar things happened in real life so they can happen in games.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by NeoX:

...

So just because it's not a boring "circle mages were born big evil powerful bastards" it's bad writing? Alright.

Lol! Play the games again and focus on the story for once.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Originally posted by Farlon:

So just because it's not a boring "circle mages were born big evil powerful bastards" it's bad writing? Alright.

Lol! Play the games again and focus on the story for once.

And what would be the "good writing"? I didn't see a suggestion from you even once. I focus on the story, you just focus on disliking everything that's not SF2.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by NeoX:

Lol! Play the games again and focus on the story for once.

And what would be the "good writing"? I didn't see a suggestion from you even once.

Just don't break the canon story and make sense along the way. That's all.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Originally posted by Farlon:

And what would be the "good writing"? I didn't see a suggestion from you even once.

Just don't break the canon story and make sense along the way. That's all.

Yet you don't mention what's broken there.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by NeoX:

Just don't break the canon story and make sense along the way. That's all.

Yet you don't mention what's broken there.

lol i linked you an entire threat.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Originally posted by Farlon:

Yet you don't mention what's broken there.

lol i linked you an entire threat.

Thread*
And you linked a thread where other users talk about it, you just scream "bad fanfiction!" everywhere without explaining even ONCE why it is. The best I saw you do was just quote a comment and add "+1".

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by NeoX:

lol i linked you an entire threat.

Thread*
And you linked a thread where other users talk about it, you just scream "bad fanfiction!" everywhere without explaining even ONCE why it is. The best I saw you do was just quote a comment and add "+1".

You should read these posts for once.

[akatosh86]

to be honest, Soul Harvest didn't explicitly break any existing lore. But there's this thing called Continuity Nod: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityNod and SF3 in general isn't very fond of this trope
I guess it's not very important for 'casuals' (I hate this word and I'm not suggesting any elitism, really), but I've been into Spellforce ever since high school and it's a bit bizzare to come up with a new name for Lar's capital, instead of using the established name. There can be an in-universe explanation for this (maybe Shal was a fortress northeast of Cahlabrock, which survived after the Convocation?) but still...
The more classic examples of lore breaking involve the unexplained extensions of the established timeline (introduced in the base SF3 game). As I said, I'm fine with retcons, as long as its somehow explained (not necessarily in-universe, but maybe in the manual?).

which is somewhat sad, even though I still enjoy the game both as an RPG and as a strategy.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Originally posted by Farlon:

Thread*
And you linked a thread where other users talk about it, you just scream "bad fanfiction!" everywhere without explaining even ONCE why it is. The best I saw you do was just quote a comment and add "+1".

You should read these posts for once.

So you can't spot the lore breakers unless someone points you there. That explains a few things.

Originally posted by akatosh86:

to be honest, Soul Harvest didn't explicitly break any existing lore. But there's this thing called Continuity Nod: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ContinuityNod
I guess it's not very important for 'casuals' (I hate this word and I don't suggest any elitism, really), but I've been into Spellforce ever since high school and it's a bit bizzare to come up with a new name for Lar's capital, instead of using the established name. There can be an in-universe explanation for this (maybe Shal was a fortress northeast of Cahlabrock, which survived after the Convocation?) but still...
The more classic examples of lore breaking involve the unexplained extensions of the established timeline (introduced in the base SF3 game). As I said, I'm fine with retcons, as long as its somehow explained (not necessarily in-universe, but maybe in the manual?).

which is somewhat sad, even though I still enjoy the game both as an RPG and as a strategy.

Yeah the time extension is weird and I hope it's fixed, and Shal might be located even right above Cahlabrok, you can apparently see the spires from afar according to its first loading screen and I don't think you're already underground there. And thanks for showing the Continuity Nod, didn't even know about it.

[NeoX]

Originally posted by Farlon:

Originally posted by NeoX:

You should read these posts for once.

So you can't spot the lore breakers unless someone points you there. That explains a few things.

Ok i will make you a full list. It will take some time, because it's quite long.

[Farlon]

Originally posted by NeoX:

Originally posted by Farlon:

So you can't spot the lore breakers unless someone points you there. That explains a few things.

Ok i will make you a full list. It will take some time, because it's quite long.

On your own by playing the game, not asking others what's there.