Is this title a Metroidvania? This looks like a puzzle platformer.

[Defmonkey]

As per title. This is not to say the game cant be good. But puzzle platformers general are not my preference. Wanted to clear this up before a purchase consideration.

As another example, a lot a people classified Dead Cells as a metroidvania, which while it does have a lot visual and combat aspects heavily inspired by castlevania it is categorically not a metroidvania, its a roguelike.

[Perseus]

I think it's sort of both? It's difficult to say for sure without knowing what your definition of metroidvania is.

[Cloakshire]

metroidbrainia

[Zelakon]

I would say that technically it is one, but as many people don't feel that puzzle platformers with item/ability-gated areas qualify as metroidvanias if they don't include RPG elements such as combat or levelling up (hence leading to the creation of the subgenre metroidbrania), then that's as much clarity as I can provide for you.

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

As another example, a lot a people classified Dead Cells as a metroidvania, which while it does have a lot visual and combat aspects heavily inspired by castlevania it is categorically not a metroidvania, its a roguelike.

Correct; if something's roguelike/lite then it can't really be a metroidvania, as the latter requires save points throughout a single explorative run.

[Wylie28]

Originally posted by Zelakon:

I would say that technically it is one, but as many people don't feel that puzzle platformers with item/ability-gated areas qualify as metroidvanias if they don't include RPG elements such as combat or levelling up (hence leading to the creation of the subgenre metroidbrania), then that's as much clarity as I can provide for you.

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

As another example, a lot a people classified Dead Cells as a metroidvania, which while it does have a lot visual and combat aspects heavily inspired by castlevania it is categorically not a metroidvania, its a roguelike.

Correct; if something's roguelike/lite then it can't really be a metroidvania, as the latter requires save points throughout a single explorative run.

What the ♥♥♥♥? Metroid didn't even have that ♥♥♥♥. Why the hell would a METROIDvania require RPG mechanics?

Also a metroidvania doesn't require savepoints. Besides the fact that METROID didn't even have the ability to save. The entire genre is based around the gameplay structure of an open world, with no artificial barriers that you pass by getting the upgrades designed for those passages. That's it. That's all the genre has EVER been defined as. That's all Metroid was. It was a NES game.

[Zelakon]

Originally posted by Wylie28:

What the ♥♥♥♥? Metroid didn't even have that ♥♥♥♥. Why the hell would a METROIDvania require RPG mechanics?

For the same reason that mixing the colour purple would require blue as well as red.

Originally posted by Wylie28:

Also a metroidvania doesn't require savepoints. Besides the fact that METROID didn't even have the ability to save. The entire genre is based around the gameplay structure of an open world, with no artificial barriers that you pass by getting the upgrades designed for those passages. That's it. That's all the genre has EVER been defined as. That's all Metroid was. It was a NES game.

Of course, hence why we're not talking about metroid-likes, but metroidvanias. I don't know how you can completely disregard Castlevania's influence on a genre that's partially named after it. Or didn't you know that metroidvania is a portmanteau of both titles..?

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Perseus:

I think it's sort of both? It's difficult to say for sure without knowing what your definition of metroidvania is.

I think the definition has been construed a lot. There's the Wikipedia and other definitions that center around "Non-linearity", "Utility-Gating", "Interconnected world" lots of big words, etc, etc....

These are correct, but in my opinion, a metroidvania is specifically a sub-category of action / adventure 2D platformer with this certain type of structure / game design. (2.5D ok, 3D not ok)

Many people are getting hooked up with these definitions and applying it across many genres and expanding the meaning. Dark Souls, Arkham Games, Zelda... none of these are metroidvania in my view.

Even within the franchises themselves. Castlevania, the original 1986 one, is not a metroidvania. Its an action-adventure platformer sure, but, because it is level based it cant fit the metroidvania design.

The game that got me in to "metroidvanias" was Wonderboy in Monster World (1991) that i played before the release of Super Metroid (1994) and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (1997) and was released before the the two games that the genre is being recognised as, Wonderboy Dragons Trap is before that even (1989). There are games before both the original metroid and castlevania (both 1986) that could be classed as metroidvanias.

Have seen the term of Proto-metroidvanias being used recently :), the idea wasnt new, just didnt have a name for this style of platformer at the time.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Cloakshire:

metroidbrainia

Well i suppose that could be used..... :) Sounds like a synonym for Puzzle Platformer lol

A bit like Metal music and bands... They are metal but not that type of metal :)

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Zelakon:

I would say that technically it is one, but as many people don't feel that puzzle platformers with item/ability-gated areas qualify as metroidvanias if they don't include RPG elements such as combat or levelling up (hence leading to the creation of the subgenre metroidbrania), then that's as much clarity as I can provide for you.

This seems a fair assessment. Nothing wrong with this outlook and certainly gives clarity.

I think i lean more towards the view that puzzle platformers with item/ability-gated areas do not qualify as metroidvanias if they don't include RPG elements such as combat or levelling up. Simply because i view metroidvanias as a sub genre of action / adventure platformer.

Many metroidvanias do have puzzle elements, technical platforming etc, but these should not be central aspects in my opinion.

Have added some input to a fellow poster above in post #6, want to avoid repeating myself but happy to clarify further. Personally i like a good healthy dollop of Vania with my serving of Metroid, so agree with your reply to Wylie28.

Metroidbrania might be suitable for this title, but ive seen that term used for other games such as Tunic and the Outer Wilds.... Lol.... neither of these have anything to do with metroid or castlevania so no idea why the term being used for those games :)

Originally posted by Zelakon:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

As another example, a lot a people classified Dead Cells as a metroidvania, which while it does have a lot visual and combat aspects heavily inspired by castlevania it is categorically not a metroidvania, its a roguelike.

Correct; if something's roguelike/lite then it can't really be a metroidvania, as the latter requires save points throughout a single explorative run.

Yeah there is alot of this going on. Personally im looking for games that fit the metroidvania term properly.

[Perseus]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Metroidbrania might be suitable for this title, but ive seen that term used for other games such as Tunic and the Outer Wilds.... Lol.... neither of these have anything to do with metroid or castlevania so no idea why the term being used for those games :)

This is the second time i've seen the term "Metroidbrania", and the first person i saw using it was describing it as the equivalent of a Metroidvania where the "keys" to the "upgrades locks" gating your progression are purely knowledge-based.
With the general definition of "Metroidvania", "Metroidbrania" would somewhat apply to those games, but it definitely wouldn't apply with your more specific definition of the Metroidvania genre.

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Yeah there is alot of this going on. Personally im looking for games that fit the metroidvania term properly.

Are you looking for recommendations, by the way?

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Perseus:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Metroidbrania might be suitable for this title, but ive seen that term used for other games such as Tunic and the Outer Wilds.... Lol.... neither of these have anything to do with metroid or castlevania so no idea why the term being used for those games :)

This is the second time i've seen the term "Metroidbrania", and the first person i saw using it was describing it as the equivalent of a Metroidvania where the "keys" to the "upgrades locks" gating your progression are purely knowledge-based.
With the general definition of "Metroidvania", "Metroidbrania" would somewhat apply to those games, but it definitely wouldn't apply with your more specific definition of the Metroidvania genre.

Yeah i would say a game would need to be a metroid-like or Metroidvania at least to be coined with the the brain bit, i think so at least anyway. Certainly can see the angle for knowledge based gating as a tool.

I own both Tunic and Outer Wilds myself and both are fantastic games, Tunic is a top down puzzle ARPG / Adventure game... essentially a Zelda like with a puzzle twist. Outer wilds is a first person mystery adventure game, that literally starts you with all the gear you need to win and as soon as you 'know' you can basically complete the game in 10 minutes, which sort of goes against gated design since when you can bypass the entire game.

Certainly can see the name fitting for this title though, i have watched a few reviews and certainly seems to be consensus that we have a metroidvania here, though the reviewers seemed a bit on the fence and "this is a metroidvania... buuuuttt.." and "I'm having difficulty categorizing this game?!" lol.... So definitely an unusual one for sure :D

I can see the metroid inspired map and equipment / utility gating and the exploration / platforming looks like its been pinned down pretty well, but not seeing much in the way of narrative, combat, bosses, side quests, leveling / character progression etc etc, so looks very weak in those areas from my first impressions.

The other convention i see alot is soulsvania, i would consider most of these fitting under metroidvania, not sure the need for a more specific term... not sure what this really sets it apart from a typical metroidvania, corpse running maybe.... but then again Hollow Knight and BioGun have corpse running and i wouldn't really call these soulslike personally. Many of the metroidvania titles are more metroid-likes than vanias but personally dont have a problem with lumping them all together if they fit on the spectrum provided they are 2D action / adventure platformers fitting of the interconnected, non linear, utility gated game design.

Anyways, i will probably keep this on the list for potential purchase since it seems such a special case and formulate my own opinion on it proper.

Originally posted by Perseus:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

Yeah there is alot of this going on. Personally im looking for games that fit the metroidvania term properly.

Are you looking for recommendations, by the way?

Well, funny you mention... just spent 250 USD on metroidvanias, lol. One game i was disappointed didn't go on sale was Valdis Story so will get that when goes on sale, though i did get Infernax so looking forward to giving that one a spin.

All the big names i probably have, but certainly open to suggestions if you have any hidden gems in mind. :D

[Perseus]

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

All the big names i probably have, but certainly open to suggestions if you have any hidden gems in mind. :D

There's four games i can think of that i've completed and that match more or less the definition of Metroidvania : La-Mulana, Rain World, Unsighted, and Islets. (They seem to all be on sale right now.)


Out of the four, La-Mulana is the only one i'm most confident matches your definition of Metroidvania.
It's a fairly unique game, sadly enough, though i'm not sure how exactly to describe what makes it unique. Part of it is that it's fairly ruthless, in more ways than one.
Where other games would teach you to avoid common mistakes in no-risk situations through some clever level design, La-Mulana would likely have spikes at the ready to cushion your fall.
It can also be pretty obscure at times (unless you're extremely determined, you probably won't finish the game without asking someone for hints/without using a guide).


Rain World is extremely unique, but it's also fairly far from the "general" definition of Metroidvania.
It definitely fits within "a sub-category of action / adventure 2D platformer with this certain type of structure / game design.", though perhaps not in the exact way you meant. It's a different kind of adventure.
Rain World gave me the same feeling of "hostile unknowns" Hollow Knight gave me, but far stronger. Its atmosphere is the best of any game i know of (and maybe out of all games that currently exist).
The controls can feel weird at the start, but that's only temporary. Movement is one of this game's strengths.
Be warned, it's pretty difficult so be prepared to suffer a bit.
But if you do struggle through, it's a magical experience.
(I don't recommend Downpour (DLC), i think it kinda failed at being Rain World.)


Unsighted and Islets haven't marked me anywhere near as much as much as La-Mulana and Rain World, but they are much more "classic" experiences.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by Perseus:

Originally posted by Defmonkey:

All the big names i probably have, but certainly open to suggestions if you have any hidden gems in mind. :D

There's four games i can think of that i've completed and that match more or less the definition of Metroidvania : La-Mulana, Rain World, Unsighted, and Islets. (They seem to all be on sale right now.)

Thanks for the suggestions, did pretty well to pick 4 that i don't have :)

2 of these i do have on wishlist. Islets and Unsighted. - Unsighted appears to be top down so probably doesnt fit as metroidvania for me but regardless of the technicalities of whether it is or isnt, it certainly ticks a lot of boxes and definitely interested in checking this one out.

As for La-Mulana.... woo, thats a hardcore one. :) Been chickening out on that up till now. I have 2 games on my list that ive chickened out on, one being La-Mulana and the other being Aeterna Noctis with its precision platforming, not sure i hate myself enough to put myself through that. :D .... though for La-Mulana, might be time to give it a shot to see how far i get with it.

Rainworld i know the least about so will look into that one.

[nephalim]

I'd say first and foremost it is a puzzle platformer. But yes it is also a metroidvania. The map exploration and (at least apparent) gated progression behind items that unlock skills which open the map and allow you to interact with the world is quintessential metroidvania. There is not traditional combat but there are enemies you have to dodge and in some cases somehow defeat that will attack you.

[Defmonkey]

Originally posted by nephalim:

I'd say first and foremost it is a puzzle platformer. But yes it is also a metroidvania. The map exploration and (at least apparent) gated progression behind items that unlock skills which open the map and allow you to interact with the world is quintessential metroidvania. There is not traditional combat but there are enemies you have to dodge and in some cases somehow defeat that will attack you.

Appreciate the feedback and a fair assessment. Yeah i think will have to play and form my own opinion at some point. Please don't take the below specifically as a rebuff to your response as i respect your view on what definitions work for you, its only really general thoughts for discussion.

Though as you mention, if this game is first and foremost a puzzle platformer, then i don't think this game really fits as a Metroidvania from my initial impressions, simply because a Metroidvania is a sub-genre of action / adventure platformer, not a puzzle one.

While exploration and gated progression is quintessential to the Metroidvania sub-genre, it is not exclusive to nor unique to Metroidvania. Many Zelda likes, Dark Souls likes and similar fitting types under the action / adventure and other genre categories also have exploration and gated progression but are not platformers. Personally i would go one step further to say that Metroidvanias should be 2D, but obviously that's up to further discussion and not really applicable here with Animal well fitting as a 2D platform game.

If i had been gifted this game for Christmas promised as a Metroidvania without knowing anything about it, i think i would be left wanting or extremely disappointed to be honest. On the contrary, if gifted as a highly praised puzzle platformer with metroid-like progression, then expectations would shift favorably.

I notice this game scoring high in "top 10 / best of" Metroidvania games list so hence the reason for scrutiny. Not to diminish the quality of the game or the achievements of the developer, this could be both an outstanding game... but a lousy Metroidvania. Similar examples i see are Unsighted and Minishoot Adventures, Neither of these are Metroidvanias either really. Other old examples would be Toki Tori 2.... actively advertised as a Metroidvania by the developer and nothing of the sort and Cave Story.

In contrast i have played Rabi-Ribi, Deaths Gambit Afterlife, Biogun and Castlevania Circle of the Moon in the last week and all good Metroidvainias with different themes.

[nephalim]

The game is a mix of genres and quite unique. However you want to define it is subjective.