ANIMAL WELL

ANIMAL WELL

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The later puzzles feel kind of unfinished or rushed
Something about the secret rabbits just feels really weird to me. The end game area makes it seem like there should be 20 but there are only 16, and there are hints around the game world that seemingly just lead to nothing. Plus the "Layer 4" puzzle is basically just a bunch of random nonsense actions you could never hope to figure out without datamining, and the reward for it is painfully lame.
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
apocalyptech May 14, 2024 @ 10:48am 
Speaking as someone who gratefully made use of online guides/resources to finish out a lot of post-"finish" content (ie: most of the bunnies, some egg stragglers), IMO the later puzzles are mostly quite good, actually. With just a few exceptions, all the clues are there, though they may take some lateral thinking, etc. For the Layer 4 Puzzle you mention, you do have extra clues if you use your UV light in the Office, for instance.

To my mind there's five puzzles in the game that I'd consider "unfair" (granted, all of them are post-"finish" content, so perhaps I'm proving your point after all):

Bunny-adjacent:

1. IMO the upside-down egg needing to have its bits flipped to decipher the Egg Room song (to acquire the office key) is pretty sadistic. There's zero chance I'd've ever remembered the egg names clearly enough to even consider flipping that one.

Bunnies:

2. The bunny whose song is supposed to be discovered in the room with the chinchilla and the two moving platforms -- the song itself is hidden behind a bunch of vines, and I could not for the life of me make them out at all, even after quite a bit of staring. Some guides recommended playing with monitor brightness, etc, but I already keep my monitor brighter than other folks probably do. Gotta make that more visible somehow!

3. The Dream Bunny is annoying as hell, and I think you'd have to be extremely lucky to spot it on your own. I am not going to spend three minutes sitting there doing nothing with the game running, unless I've been clued in by outside-game resources. The game feedback when you do collect the bunny isn't great, either -- I didn't realize that I'd successfully caught it and spent another four minutes just watching the sleeping blob.

4. The "origami" bunny either requires an external barcode reader (with probable screenshot edits to get it to read), or a printer hooked up to your PC. Not super fond of that.

5. And then, while I like the idea of the pixel-art bunny display, I'm not super keen on having the solution to that one require coordinating with outside humans (or just outright looking up the answer).

I suppose when listing them out like that, it does kind of feel like a big chunk, eh? That's 25% of the bunnies, and one area which is a pretty necessary hint for deciphering the bunny platform puzzle. Still, in each of those cases I actually do appreciate the intended puzzles, even if I consider them somewhat unfair. I suppose the unique vibes of this game is just making me feel more gracious towards its minor faults. At least the stuff I consider unfair is sort of post-game, eh? :)
Last edited by apocalyptech; May 14, 2024 @ 10:55am
sweet lemonade May 14, 2024 @ 1:23pm 
Originally posted by apocalyptech:
Speaking as someone who gratefully made use of online guides/resources to finish out a lot of post-"finish" content (ie: most of the bunnies, some egg stragglers), IMO the later puzzles are mostly quite good, actually. With just a few exceptions, all the clues are there, though they may take some lateral thinking, etc. For the Layer 4 Puzzle you mention, you do have extra clues if you use your UV light in the Office, for instance.

To my mind there's five puzzles in the game that I'd consider "unfair" (granted, all of them are post-"finish" content, so perhaps I'm proving your point after all):

Bunny-adjacent:

1. IMO the upside-down egg needing to have its bits flipped to decipher the Egg Room song (to acquire the office key) is pretty sadistic. There's zero chance I'd've ever remembered the egg names clearly enough to even consider flipping that one.

Bunnies:

2. The bunny whose song is supposed to be discovered in the room with the chinchilla and the two moving platforms -- the song itself is hidden behind a bunch of vines, and I could not for the life of me make them out at all, even after quite a bit of staring. Some guides recommended playing with monitor brightness, etc, but I already keep my monitor brighter than other folks probably do. Gotta make that more visible somehow!

3. The Dream Bunny is annoying as hell, and I think you'd have to be extremely lucky to spot it on your own. I am not going to spend three minutes sitting there doing nothing with the game running, unless I've been clued in by outside-game resources. The game feedback when you do collect the bunny isn't great, either -- I didn't realize that I'd successfully caught it and spent another four minutes just watching the sleeping blob.

4. The "origami" bunny either requires an external barcode reader (with probable screenshot edits to get it to read), or a printer hooked up to your PC. Not super fond of that.

5. And then, while I like the idea of the pixel-art bunny display, I'm not super keen on having the solution to that one require coordinating with outside humans (or just outright looking up the answer).

I suppose when listing them out like that, it does kind of feel like a big chunk, eh? That's 25% of the bunnies, and one area which is a pretty necessary hint for deciphering the bunny platform puzzle. Still, in each of those cases I actually do appreciate the intended puzzles, even if I consider them somewhat unfair. I suppose the unique vibes of this game is just making me feel more gracious towards its minor faults. At least the stuff I consider unfair is sort of post-game, eh? :)
It's funny you mention the origami bunny, because that was actually my favorite one. Though that's due to the comedic aspect of me not realizing it was automatically printing something and finding 15 pages of paper on the floor later, then getting a cute little origami rabbit out of it as well.
The most frustrating stuff to me was the flipped egg as you mentioned, mainly because I "figured it out" on my first try then spent an extra hour thinking I was wrong, and the bunny that requires you to play "the floor is lava" since there's absolutely zero way I would ever figure that out without a guide. Every other rabbit felt at least somewhat natural to discover and I had way more fun with them than the eggs. Another really infuriating thing to me, and the main reason I say it feels "unfinished", is the random UV murals that feature bunnies combined with the extra unfilled bunny statues. It feels like such an unnecessary red herring.
apocalyptech May 14, 2024 @ 1:52pm 
Originally posted by sweet lemonade:
It's funny you mention the origami bunny, because that was actually my favorite one.

Yeah, I actually really love the idea of that one as well -- it's just a shame that folks who don't have a printer would never even know that that's in there uneless they happen to see it online. It'd be nice if the computer would at least light up a drop a PDF somewhere, in the absence of a physical printer.

and the bunny that requires you to play "the floor is lava" since there's absolutely zero way I would ever figure that out without a guide

That one I actually don't mind so much; if you pay attention to the map closely enough, there's that little unexplored area, and I feel like the "basic" mechanism for getting yourself through there would be apparent enough, even if the execution seems daunting. I'd actually resigned myself to probably never collecting that bunny, since my platforming skill is not great (and I'm generally not willing to put in the necessary practice to "git gud," as it were), but someone recently posted a far-easier way to collect that one, fwiw: https://steamcommunity.com/app/813230/discussions/0/4365754575403105042/
Almaz May 14, 2024 @ 2:16pm 
Originally posted by apocalyptech:
Yeah, I actually really love the idea of that one as well -- it's just a shame that folks who don't have a printer would never even know that that's in there uneless they happen to see it online. It'd be nice if the computer would at least light up a drop a PDF somewhere, in the absence of a physical printer.
well, it did so for me. the game never wanted to print that origami scheme, but just wanted to save PDF file in the Documents directory by defalut. i dunno why some folks got this problem
Last edited by Almaz; May 14, 2024 @ 2:17pm
apocalyptech May 14, 2024 @ 2:21pm 
Originally posted by Adam Jensen:
well, it did so for me. the game never wanted to print that origami scheme, but just wanted to save PDF file in the Documents directory by defalut. i dunno why some folks got this problem

I am running on Linux via Proton; perhaps that's got something to do with it. Perhaps when running in that environment it just doesn't expose any printer interface at all, whereas on "real" Windows it at least knows that printing might be an option. If that's the case I'll have to withdraw that criticism! (After all, I'm the weirdo running Linux.) :)
Last edited by apocalyptech; May 14, 2024 @ 2:21pm
Tinker May 14, 2024 @ 3:22pm 
I definitely get where a lot of people are coming from as far as the later puzzles being near impossible to solve solo, but I also find it interesting because layer 4 was very clear not designed to be found, and personally I find that beautiful. The frustration with layer three is justified, I'd just like to see more people appreciating that effort an intent behind the design. Not to say that anyone is wrong for being angry, just that maybe try appreciating that you may never experience the solutions on your own, and that that is not just ok, but expected. Rarely ever is a problem solved in a vacuum, gaming included, community effort should be more appreciated and expected! Collaboration, I think, is a wonderful way to solve something, and that fact that animal is solved that way, is wonderful.
MorpheusLunae May 14, 2024 @ 3:56pm 
Originally posted by apocalyptech:
2. The bunny whose song is supposed to be discovered in the room with the chinchilla and the two moving platforms -- the song itself is hidden behind a bunch of vines, and I could not for the life of me make them out at all, even after quite a bit of staring. Some guides recommended playing with monitor brightness, etc, but I already keep my monitor brighter than other folks probably do. Gotta make that more visible somehow!
You know you can use windowed mode and move your mouse over the window to have some light. And you can even move the window itself to shake everything on screen, including the vines. :)
apocalyptech May 14, 2024 @ 4:29pm 
Originally posted by MorpheusLunae:
You know you can...
Oh fun! Well, now I do. :)

Originally posted by Tinker:
I'd just like to see more people appreciating that effort an intent behind the design.
Yeah, for sure -- as I say above, even for the ones that I consider "unfair," most of them are pretty cool in theory, and I'd rather have an "ambitious" puzzle fail (for me, anyway) than see something play it too safe. I definitely wouldn't be angry about anything in this game; most of my complaints are "nitpicks" at worst, when cast against the rest of the game. :)
Parmak May 14, 2024 @ 4:49pm 
The game was originally meant to be solved by the community at large. Like others have mentioned, the very endgame puzzle when solved literally tells you that it was designed to never really be solved. The dev himself seemed to have been of the mindset that these puzzles would not be solved for several years. In Dunkey's Animal Well video he specifically says there are puzzles in the game that people will be solving "for years to come".

It was really only thanks to the communal efforts of everyone on the discord methodically combing through the entire game, brainstorming ideas, and doing countless hours of testing to figure out these solutions. One puzzle even required 50 different people to solve, which to me says the dev intended for the post game puzzles to be community driven.

In a normal play-through you can get 100% of the achievements without really needing much outside help if any, the puzzles past that were entirely made for the satisfaction of the hardcore ARG puzzle solving community and there's really no tangible reward for solving them other than the act of doing so.
<:) May 14, 2024 @ 6:57pm 
Originally posted by apocalyptech:
Speaking as someone who gratefully made use of online guides/resources to finish out a lot of post-"finish" content (ie: most of the bunnies, some egg stragglers), IMO the later puzzles are mostly quite good, actually. With just a few exceptions, all the clues are there, though they may take some lateral thinking, etc. For the Layer 4 Puzzle you mention, you do have extra clues if you use your UV light in the Office, for instance.

To my mind there's five puzzles in the game that I'd consider "unfair" (granted, all of them are post-"finish" content, so perhaps I'm proving your point after all):

Bunny-adjacent:

1. IMO the upside-down egg needing to have its bits flipped to decipher the Egg Room song (to acquire the office key) is pretty sadistic. There's zero chance I'd've ever remembered the egg names clearly enough to even consider flipping that one.

Bunnies:

2. The bunny whose song is supposed to be discovered in the room with the chinchilla and the two moving platforms -- the song itself is hidden behind a bunch of vines, and I could not for the life of me make them out at all, even after quite a bit of staring. Some guides recommended playing with monitor brightness, etc, but I already keep my monitor brighter than other folks probably do. Gotta make that more visible somehow!

3. The Dream Bunny is annoying as hell, and I think you'd have to be extremely lucky to spot it on your own. I am not going to spend three minutes sitting there doing nothing with the game running, unless I've been clued in by outside-game resources. The game feedback when you do collect the bunny isn't great, either -- I didn't realize that I'd successfully caught it and spent another four minutes just watching the sleeping blob.

4. The "origami" bunny either requires an external barcode reader (with probable screenshot edits to get it to read), or a printer hooked up to your PC. Not super fond of that.

5. And then, while I like the idea of the pixel-art bunny display, I'm not super keen on having the solution to that one require coordinating with outside humans (or just outright looking up the answer).

I suppose when listing them out like that, it does kind of feel like a big chunk, eh? That's 25% of the bunnies, and one area which is a pretty necessary hint for deciphering the bunny platform puzzle. Still, in each of those cases I actually do appreciate the intended puzzles, even if I consider them somewhat unfair. I suppose the unique vibes of this game is just making me feel more gracious towards its minor faults. At least the stuff I consider unfair is sort of post-game, eh? :)

that first bunny i discovered naturally after reading a post here early into my playtime where somebody said you can interact with the environment by moving your mouse.

Dream bunny i got by going to the toilet and coming back to see it on screen, but first time i couldn't jump high enough to touch it.

the barcode i randomly thought of out of the blue while passing through the screen and thinking 'why are those damn dogs like that'. actually proud of that one despite it being a total fluke (are there any in game hints to it? coz i never found any). I just screenshotted, cropped the lines, threw a threshold filter on it, and chucked it in an online barcode reader and got the numbers, and already knew about the note numbers.

I think i had 9 bunnies found naturally, but that stupid mural made me give up and start looking at hints, and realised there's no way to 'solve' it without crowd sourcing, which i was avoiding because i didn't want to use guides. After seeing all the layer 3 and 4 puzzling it's obvious it's intended to be a communal effort. I think having an achievement for finding one bunny is supposed to sort of be like a red herring, to obfuscate the fact that they're not only much more numerous, but serve a purpose you don't realise until you find the true ending.
cammy May 15, 2024 @ 2:04pm 
I thought a lot of them were quite clever and rewarded observation and experimentation - I especially enjoyed the map one and the crow one, and the surprise I had when my printer suddenly started whirring had me smiling. I managed to collect all of them in collaboration with a friend while we were both on our rabbit hunt, and it was super fun.

The only one I am not a fan of is the mural. While I think the idea is very cool, I just don't think it fits in line with the rest of the puzzles which can truly be solved offline using only information within the game. My friend and I shared the same goal, which was to solve as much as we could without consulting a guide, so the fact you HAVE to look up the puzzle was a big disappointment. I think it would have been much more fun if there was some way to cycle the pieces, maybe using the wheel or something.

As for the bunny platform/office puzzle, I managed to crack that without guidance and it was an ecstatic feeling to do so. I was prepared to bust out scraps of paper and puzzle stuff out. The game does hint that there might be only 16 bunnies - I knew a nibble was a data type with only 4 bits, holding 16 values, and also observed that there are 16 possible combinations of "ear states" (4 for each ear, 4x4 = 16). I had to convince myself that there weren't more bunnies, or at least that they'd maybe appear after solving the puzzle.

It clicked pretty fast that the rabbits up top were giving two pieces of information and it was related to the office puzzle, so I wrote down what I could and analysed that none of the first ear movements had any repeats, therefore they were probably communicating their unique "index" (whenever they nibbled on the grass, which I thought was a cute pun) within a sequence along with their "value". This further solidified my theory that there were only 16 bunnies. It then wasn't difficult to compile a table of 0 through 16 in base-4, using the numbered arrows, with ear states that lined up with the hints given for 8 and 12. After that, it was just a case of finding the rest of the bunnies and figuring out how/where to actually use the sequence after trying multiple ideas.


Not trying to brag (although, maybe a little bit...) - I am just saying this is a really well-designed puzzle and not at all reliant on bruteforce or datamining. It felt amazing to solve it.
symphony May 15, 2024 @ 6:06pm 
The problem here is expectations. Billy should have never even mentioned layers, he should have just said there are secrets or there's more to the well than it seems. Or not have said anything at all really and just let people have their minds blown naturally.

You're coming at it with the expectation that everyone should be able to solve everything, and then criticizing it when they can't. This is why no one complains about dumb esoteric stuff in games like Inscryption or Braid. Because there's no expectations, the secrets are just that, secret. Similar to Void Stranger. That game has FAR more annoying and tedious parts but people are willing to look past it because it's just cool as hell when someone does discover something. You think you're just playing a block pushy game and then boom all of a sudden you get yourself out of bounds. You just peeled back a layer you never knew was there.

The problem started straight from the marketing. You can't tell someone "pssst there's something hidden here", because they're going to find it. The entire internet was on it. That's why the game was fully solved within a week. You'd have to prevent datamining somehow and I imagine that's no easy technical feat at all. Feels like Noita and maybe even Payday 2 are some of the only few good examples of how to keep something extremely well hidden.
Last edited by symphony; May 15, 2024 @ 6:13pm
Ninethousand May 16, 2024 @ 1:01pm 
Not gonna read all the bunny stuff because i still gotta do a few, but for 1.)...

There are two eggs that stand out when you look at them with UV, and i instantly knew that this might be important. Just glad that the other egg (Large Egg? The one that only has two bars instead of 3) didn't do anything weird, and only looked weird.

Edit: And now that i found some more of the bunnies... Man, this sucks! I just had to google one solution, and boy... this is IMPOSSIBLE to solve! Even if you have the right idea, it took me over an HOUR to make it work, and i only randomly found out why it wouldn't work, and THAT is complete bs!

Make sure you are using a barcode scanner that also works on white codes on black ground! For mine it's an option you have to manually toggle in the options! Thanks dev! This was idiotic!
Last edited by Ninethousand; May 16, 2024 @ 2:53pm
ErsatzDragon May 16, 2024 @ 4:54pm 
Funny enough, I liked some of the more obtuse puzzles as they seemed to pay homage to puzzles in / from other great games. The gibberish statements becoming a path when arranged per the poster in the house felt like a nod to Tunic's Golden Path, and "the floor is lava" reminded me immediately of VVVVVV's "Prize for the Reckless" trinket.
Jet Uppercut May 16, 2024 @ 9:17pm 
The Floor is Lava bunny is actually a really clever one. Because there's an entire 3 maps worth of platforming you have to do that is your only route into the Penguin/Seahorse area
(for a while) that shows your position isn't saved when falling into water from a Switch block.
That and the top tunnel of the left side having nothing in it but continuing from the right of where you think it leads is all I needed to figure out that one.

I feel like the other way that everyone is talking about only exists because someone brute forced the puzzle via datamining or something. Doesn't make sense to solve it that way at all.
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Date Posted: May 14, 2024 @ 8:42am
Posts: 17