ANIMAL WELL

ANIMAL WELL

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When secrets become too obscure
This is not really a rant, but more of an opinion and an observation.

I've been watching a bunch of videos lately about Animal Well, especially those in-depth secret ones. They interest me and I did enjoy the game, afterall. I do the same with Noita, by the way.

Looking through a bunch of videos and of course playing myself, a bunch of these secrets appear... exceptionally difficult to solve and a fraction of these aren't even conveyed in such a way that you know they exist. I mean at least I wouldn't have come up with the idea to bubble-jump a bunch of screens along a specific path from a specific starting point without touching the ground just to get to one point otherwise unreachable. And that is just one of several. But I also could be completely alone on that one and everyone did this without looking at guides.

I mean I'm someone who likes to do escape rooms, solve riddles and does geo-caching if anybody knows what that is. And if not, well, google exists. In all of these instances, you have a clear goal, if not always directly told. But imagine if an escape room had a secret that is not conveyed, not hinted towards and is so exceptionally well hidden that it becomes virtually impossible to find? Unless you start breaking stuff, of course. (Comparison: Data mining)

When it comes to stuff like this, I dislike looking up guides to get the answer unless I know I'm absolutely stuck and I know the point I'm at is absolutely essential for progressing. The rest I'd rather find on my own. Which I have given up on by now. And yes, I'm gonna be honest, I wouldn't have found even a half of the secrets currently discovered with how obscure they are. Which makes looking for them less encouraging.

I feel like secrets should be conveyed or hinted towards to some extend, even if it's a chain of secrets leading to the discovery of another one. But like it is right now, it's more of a "how far are you willing to go to potentially find something completely unrelated"?

That's just my thought on this.
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
rehsals Jun 4, 2024 @ 5:34am 
Thought about it too. But then maybe there are some hints, I just didn't happen to find them
ddchk Jun 4, 2024 @ 12:50pm 
I agree, but I also think the obscure layer is supposed to be a community effort, not unlike how an ARG works. The mural and other puzzles heavily suggests this. Your enjoyment will change on whether you want to engage with the community or not. The downside is that newcomers already missed the community secret hunt phase and can only find answers without the fun of discovery. The only way to have that experience is to find a group of friends to play the game together for the first time and hope that they are as secret obsessed as you are. Escape rooms are more fun with a group after all.
Last edited by ddchk; Jun 4, 2024 @ 12:50pm
Alayric Jun 4, 2024 @ 5:14pm 
Not everything is for everyone. Something that's too obscure for some is perfect for others.
The game becomes gradually more "obscure" as you progress, so that most people can enjoy the game up to a point.

Personally, I loved it, I sighed at the Bunny mural because I play fully solo with no hint, spoiler or discussion with others, and think nothing was really obscure up to wingdings (I only found 3 of them and had the right idea about how to use them).
Secrets that are secret is what I want. That's something pretty unusual in video games and Animal Well delivered it beautifully. :closetgamer:
DaemonX_HUN Jun 5, 2024 @ 6:53am 
I agree. I managed to complete the game without guides and get 50 or so eggs by myself (and I guess I would have been able to find a few more with a little bit more secret hunting), I figured out the TV puzzle, etc., and I also found some rabbits by myself. Overall, I would say that if you have enough patience, intelligence, logical thinking, and situational awareness, you can complete roughly 90-95% of the game by yourself, without using any guides. But for the other 5-10%, you absolutely have to use guides to complete them. And I hated this part in the game and it made me super annoyed and frustrated:

"bubble-jump a bunch of screens along a specific path from a specific starting point without touching the ground just to get to one point otherwise unreachable."
Last edited by DaemonX_HUN; Jun 5, 2024 @ 6:54am
Aiscence Jun 5, 2024 @ 10:04am 
The game is not made to be done all by yourself even though some people actually did everything by themselves outside of the mural.

I think it's something that people nowadays have but .. you aren't entitled to have everything that exist in a game without effort. Or you put the effort and spend the time to learn, or you use a guide.

The game is made to challenge people and made with the intent that not everyone will be able to do everything, and that's okay.
CaptainPOCK Jun 5, 2024 @ 11:02am 
As I have mentioned in my entry post, if data-mining or community effort are *required* to properly fully discover the game, then we are essentially incentivising the usage of guides and cheats in order to reach 100%. I'd say only a tiny fraction would like to do this. This small fraction already collected to a community dedicated to this. This is also the group who is going to stick around for several months just for finding secrets. Every small patch could add another secret, afterall. The majority would prefer to figure this out themselves without the drawback of having to give up on certain secrets. And this is currently not possible.

Long story short, there is a bunch of people who would like to 100% the game, but only a tiny fraction of it will be able to do this, not due to massive brain power, but because they refer to other methods other than the game on it's own.
Aiscence Jun 5, 2024 @ 11:49am 
As he says after the wingding: he didnt expect people to find this or resolve that puzzle. You are not supposed to 100% the game, we don't even know if that is 100%.

You are not entitled to be able to do 100% of a game, the dev made the game a certain way not expecting people to find everything past a certain point hence the lack of achievements.

People playing mmos will never 100%, people that bought hollow knight most of the people will never be able to do the last pantheon and that was the case for every game since the beginning. people 100% the game are always only a very small % and that's the same here, the only difference is that instead of a skill check, it's a brain check and so, you can have guides to explain them to you.
symphony Jun 5, 2024 @ 12:53pm 
Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:
As I have mentioned in my entry post, if data-mining or community effort are *required* to properly fully discover the game
this is true for literally every game ever made. the only difference with animal well is that you know about it. the problem is fomo, not game design
Last edited by symphony; Jun 5, 2024 @ 12:53pm
symphony Jun 5, 2024 @ 12:55pm 
Originally posted by Aiscence:
As he says after the wingding: he didnt expect people to find this or resolve that puzzle. You are not supposed to 100% the game, we don't even know if that is 100%.

You are not entitled to be able to do 100% of a game, the dev made the game a certain way not expecting people to find everything past a certain point hence the lack of achievements.

People playing mmos will never 100%, people that bought hollow knight most of the people will never be able to do the last pantheon and that was the case for every game since the beginning. people 100% the game are always only a very small % and that's the same here, the only difference is that instead of a skill check, it's a brain check and so, you can have guides to explain them to you.
this absolutely
Perseus Jun 6, 2024 @ 1:08am 
Originally posted by Aiscence:
the dev made the game a certain way not expecting people to find everything past a certain point hence the lack of achievements.
I can understand the broken messages's design decisions, as can i think everyone i've seen specifically mention them. I can do so because they're consistent, because of their purpose, because they're consistent with their purpose. There's no hints for any of them, and they all follow the theme of "above and beyond", of "going the extra mile".

However, the same isn't true for the secret bunnies. Or for a relatively large portion of the game, actually. One of this game's biggest flaws is its lack of consistency.

That some bunnies are very reasonable and have clear hints/patterns makes it seem like they're all going to be that way, and that you just haven't found those hints/patterns/secrets yet. The presence of an achievement for one of them seems to corroborate that.
And some of the hidden achievements you haven't gotten yet could be related to finding more of them, so surely they're reasonably possible to find?

However, one bunny has a hint that's way too difficult to spot, one requires managing a trick you probably haven't figured out yet, in part because there's no simple way to even try to manage that trick, even if you figured out more or less that that trick existed simply by looking at the room that requires it, one becomes impossible to find if you're too good at the game, and five (or if you're "lucky", four) other bunnies completely disregard the basic consistency of all the others (sometimes in multiple ways).

To give just one of them as an example, the "bulb bunny", who has a hint that shows different bulbs in a sequence. The problems :

-The bulbs look like whales or fish;

-The lines in the background of that hint look like music sheet lines.

-To find all the bulbs, you need to go move your save files around. Not only that, but if you have three save files, you need to delete one. Seriously?! Sure, you can back up your save file, but you shouldn't need to.

-The actual hints appear when the flowers open up. If you just look at the bulbs themselves, you won't see anything on most of them, except the yellow one, which looks like it has up-right and up-left arrows on it.

-The complete song is 16 notes long. All other warp/bunny songs are 8 notes long. The only other song that isn't eight notes long is the egg song, which isn't for a bunny or a warp.
One of the other bunnies actually benefits from the eight notes long pattern as a sort of hint, showing you that you're on/not on the right track. Said bunny is flawed in other ways, but not that one.



This isn't good design; This is bad design, it's a flaw in the game that isn't specific to the bunnies. This frustrating lack of consistency, even if fairly rare, is widespread enough to make it one of if not the game's biggest flaw.
I can only be disappointed when what a game led me to believe would be reasonable suddenly requires knowledge/tricks outside of literally everything it has used/hinted at before.
Last edited by Perseus; Jun 6, 2024 @ 1:21am
Perseus Jun 6, 2024 @ 1:37am 
Originally posted by symphony:
Originally posted by CaptainPOCK:
As I have mentioned in my entry post, if data-mining or community effort are *required* to properly fully discover the game
this is true for literally every game ever made.
It's only true for every game ever made if you include stuff like "how does the game work exactly?" instead of just what a player can "reach" that is of "value".
While stuff like four hour long video essays on how invisible walls work are very interesting, i wouldn't call such knowledge "required" to "fully discover the game".
I consider that i have fully discovered games like 14 Minesweeper Variants or Magicube entirely on my own, for example. I'm sure there's stuff like i don't know about them, but there isn't any secret level in either of them.
I haven't even completed or even unlocked every level of 14 Minesweeper Variants; And while some people have unlocked all levels, no one has completed them all. But even just what i've seen is enough to tell me i've basically seen every interesting thing there is to see.
ShnitzelKiller Jun 6, 2024 @ 1:49am 
Originally posted by ddchk:
I agree, but I also think the obscure layer is supposed to be a community effort, not unlike how an ARG works. The mural and other puzzles heavily suggests this. Your enjoyment will change on whether you want to engage with the community or not. The downside is that newcomers already missed the community secret hunt phase and can only find answers without the fun of discovery. The only way to have that experience is to find a group of friends to play the game together for the first time and hope that they are as secret obsessed as you are. Escape rooms are more fun with a group after all.
most of the secrets were found before the game was released by a select group of e-celebs with early access who eagerly posted videos of absolutely everything within days of release, before the general public even got a chance.
Last edited by ShnitzelKiller; Jun 6, 2024 @ 1:50am
CaptainPOCK Jun 6, 2024 @ 2:01am 
Originally posted by Perseus:
While stuff like four hour long video essays on how invisible walls work are very interesting, i wouldn't call such knowledge "required" to "fully discover the game".
Ohhh, Pannekoek. Yeah, I love this guy. He's the reason I started to look more in-depth into games.

But yeah, if this level of knowledge is required (or even beyond) to 100% a game (note: Intentional secrets, not left-over data or dev-rooms), then we can't really call them secrets.
symphony Jun 6, 2024 @ 12:15pm 
Originally posted by Perseus:
However, the same isn't true for the secret bunnies. Or for a relatively large portion of the game, actually. One of this game's biggest flaws is its lack of consistency.

That some bunnies are very reasonable and have clear hints/patterns makes it seem like they're all going to be that way, and that you just haven't found those hints/patterns/secrets yet.
Yeah I agree. There could be A LOT more done for consistency that would benefit everyone. I really think there are two separate discussions happening though. like people should be free to criticize the game and its mechanics for what they are, but they should also recognize that the metagaming theme is an entirely different aspect that should be criticized separately.

i see it really similar to undertale, where it's so overhyped now that any new player checking it out for the first time will have an impossible time seeing the game for what it actually is, instead of what they know about it from the community. the preconceived notions are what set players up for failure - for example all the "is this game actually good" threads
Last edited by symphony; Jun 6, 2024 @ 12:16pm
symphony Jun 6, 2024 @ 12:55pm 
Originally posted by Perseus:
Originally posted by symphony:
this is true for literally every game ever made.
It's only true for every game ever made if you include stuff like "how does the game work exactly?" instead of just what a player can "reach" that is of "value".
While stuff like four hour long video essays on how invisible walls work are very interesting, i wouldn't call such knowledge "required" to "fully discover the game".
I consider that i have fully discovered games like 14 Minesweeper Variants or Magicube entirely on my own, for example. I'm sure there's stuff like i don't know about them, but there isn't any secret level in either of them.
I haven't even completed or even unlocked every level of 14 Minesweeper Variants; And while some people have unlocked all levels, no one has completed them all. But even just what i've seen is enough to tell me i've basically seen every interesting thing there is to see.
yeah there's nothing wrong with this. this reinforces my point. you're able to recognize what is of value to you and when you've seen enough of a game. the "100%" is subjective and always will be. OP just wrote out a very literal requirement of what "fully complete" means to him, and that's okay, but he's phrasing it like it should be the same requirement for every player. it will never be like that. there are still things being discovered in DOOM 30 years later INTENDED by the dev. like the last secret being found. or a hidden switch in donkey kong 64 just being discovered. they're not bugs. they're not "leftover code". why doesn't op have a problem with those games? because he doesn't care about them (probably). again, it's just fomo. not game design
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