Weapon damage vs elemental damage

[helldweller]

So now that I've reached the level cap, I'm experimenting with different builds in an effort to maximize damage output and mix up my play style a bit. One thing I'm not sure of is whether or not elemental and weapon damage coexists.

For example: If I'm using a dagger engraved with "Weapon Damage becomes Fire Damage", does that mean Dagger damage is replaced by Fire damage, thus making any "15% Damage with Daggers" buffs useless? Obviously this would also apply to poison, other weapon types, and potentially elemental skills.

I spent much of the game focused on a poison/spear build but now I'm having fun making crispy Grecian nuggets with a fire/dagger build. I chose the Dagger of Kronus, but I have a feeling that its 15% damage buff is completely lost once engraved with "becomes Fire...".

[ShiveringSun]

I think it all stacks for weapon and elemental damage per hit, and better DOT only from elemental increases.

I know for sure that headshot damage stacks with hunter and elemental bonuses for ranged attacks with Hades bow. By adding 25% headshot I can 1 shot the little guys with shields with no adrenalin skill usage. And with ~100% fire damage from EQ + the skill at lvl 3 my melee hits way harder with "becomes fire".

Not 100% sure about the +15% per weapon bonuses though...

[Mujokan]

Logically what should happen is, say you have a sword with 2000 damage, warrior damage bonus of 10% and fire damage bonus of 20%, when you use it normally it will do 2200 warrior damage, when you put fire on it will do 2400 fire damage. But other generic bonuses like "headshots do +25%" should work equally on both types. So I would think the dagger bonus should apply as it refers to the weapon not the damage type, which would be warrior or fire. However I haven't tested this.

[helldweller]

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Logically what should happen is, say you have a sword with 2000 damage, warrior damage bonus of 10% and fire damage bonus of 20%, when you use it normally it will do 2200 warrior damage, when you put fire on it will do 2400 fire damage.

I appreciate the response but I'm not so sure about this. I have a significantly high Warrior damage buff total than Fire damage; around 2X more. When using the same dagger with Fire removed, my actual realized damage output (i.e. how fast I can take down a specific enemy with just light weapon attacks) goes down considerably.

I think it's more likely that elemental damage adds to warrior/hunter damage, but I could be wrong. The weapon specific damage buff is what seems less clear.

[Mujokan]

Originally posted by helldweller:

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Logically what should happen is, say you have a sword with 2000 damage, warrior damage bonus of 10% and fire damage bonus of 20%, when you use it normally it will do 2200 warrior damage, when you put fire on it will do 2400 fire damage.

I appreciate the response but I'm not so sure about this. I have a significantly high Warrior damage buff total than Fire damage; around 2X more. When using the same dagger with Fire removed, my actual realized damage output (i.e. how fast I can take down a specific enemy with just light weapon attacks) goes down considerably.

I think it's more likely that elemental damage adds to warrior/hunter damage, but I could be wrong. The weapon specific damage buff is what seems less clear.

To be honest I'm really tired today and shouldn't even be posting. I didn't even read your post properly, I was more thinking out loud (so to speak) because it suddenly occurred to me that +warrior bonuses logically shouldn't affect fire damage, which I hadn't really considered before -- I was just stacking everything. There is a loading screen hint that describes damage types and implies they are completely distinct. Tomorrow I may look at it more systematically.

[Ficelle]

I think all bonus, warrior, fire, dagger....stack
It is a melee weapon, it is fire, it is a dagger

Hard to say without extensive testing, but im pretty sure they all stack

How the calculations are done is another thing...additive, multiplicative, only part of the weapon being fire or all of it...

[Mujokan]

Originally posted by Ficelle:

I think all bonus, warrior, fire, dagger....stack
It is a melee weapon, it is fire, it is a dagger

Hard to say without extensive testing, but im pretty sure they all stack

How the calculations are done is another thing...additive, multiplicative, only part of the weapon being fire or all of it...

Surely they must only be additive at best or we'd really notice a massive jump. There is also the question of Hero Strike which does assassination damage, and if that were replaced by fire damage it would totally nerf the ability, which it doesn't do.

[Anelyn]

So you have a dagger which impacts directly by it's DPS (irrelevant of damage type) your warrior damage.

The dagger deals fire damage - so any buffs to fire damage will increase your warrior damage (even if IT IS NOT SHOWN currently on warrior damage).

Also being a dagger, any % + dmg to daggers will also increase this damage, but not reflected either on inventory screen currently.

Yes they add up. I play a poison build, with a poison dagger, I have 105% poison dmg bonus. My warrior dmg at lvl 50 is ~7k. Yet I hit 20-30k hits non crit with my dagger.

[Mujokan]

Another thing to consider is how much fire and poison ignore armor.

[helldweller]

Originally posted by Anelyn:

So you have a dagger which impacts directly by it's DPS (irrelevant of damage type) your warrior damage.

The dagger deals fire damage - so any buffs to fire damage will increase your warrior damage (even if IT IS NOT SHOWN currently on warrior damage).

Also being a dagger, any % + dmg to daggers will also increase this damage, but not reflected either on inventory screen currently.

Yes they add up. I play a poison build, with a poison dagger, I have 105% poison dmg bonus. My warrior dmg at lvl 50 is ~7k. Yet I hit 20-30k hits non crit with my dagger.

It all makes sense now. I had done some experimenting with different weapons for comparison but failed to notice that the % weapon damage bonus directly affects Warrior damage. Thank you!

[helldweller]

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Another thing to consider is how much fire and poison ignore armor.

So true!

[Mujokan]

Currently the two legendary weapon perks I'm using are 30% armor penetration and +25% against bosses and elites, but I don't have a good sense of how well they are working. I'm still not quite at level 50 and my gear has been in flux.

[helldweller]

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Currently the two legendary weapon perks I'm using are 30% armor penetration and +25% against bosses and elites, but I don't have a good sense of how well they are working. I'm still not quite at level 50 and my gear has been in flux.

I can honestly say that a good elemental build is ridiculously OP and that's without either of the buffs you mention. I was one shoting lv50 elites (with pred-shot) at lv46 and 2-shot the lv50 tier 1 merc.

[Mujokan]

Originally posted by helldweller:

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Currently the two legendary weapon perks I'm using are 30% armor penetration and +25% against bosses and elites, but I don't have a good sense of how well they are working. I'm still not quite at level 50 and my gear has been in flux.

I can honestly say that a good elemental build is ridiculously OP and that's without either of the buffs you mention. I was one shoting lv50 elites (with pred-shot) at lv46 and 2-shot the lv50 tier 1 merc.

I am playing assassin so my goal is to one-shot polemarches and such with the spear, I'm not so interested in the bow except in certain circumstances.

[helldweller]

Originally posted by Mujokan:

Originally posted by helldweller:

I can honestly say that a good elemental build is ridiculously OP and that's without either of the buffs you mention. I was one shoting lv50 elites (with pred-shot) at lv46 and 2-shot the lv50 tier 1 merc.

I am playing assassin so my goal is to one-shot polemarches and such with the spear, I'm not so interested in the bow except in certain circumstances.

Would be interested to see your build once you're happy with it. Right now I'm still having fun BBQ'ing my ancestors but a pure stealth/assassin build sounds like a nice way to change things up.

[Mujokan]

Originally posted by helldweller:

Originally posted by Mujokan:

I am playing assassin so my goal is to one-shot polemarches and such with the spear, I'm not so interested in the bow except in certain circumstances.

Would be interested to see your build once you're happy with it. Right now I'm still having fun BBQ'ing my ancestors but a pure stealth/assassin build sounds like a nice way to change things up.

This is how it stands right now, it's not finalized. Like I say I am not going for a max damage build, I am tailoring it to how I want to play the game.

Hard difficulty
Level 48
Health 59142
Hunter damage 5850
Warrior damage 6059
Assassin damage 97255
Armor 7060 (epic Assassin armor full set, various levels, I will upgrade it all at 50)

Engravings:
+25% damage on elites and bosses
+30% armor penetration
+20% damage with Predator Shot
+15% damage with Assassin abilities
+20% movement speed while crouched
+15% adrenaline per hit
+50% crit damage at low health
+50% crit damage at full health
+25% damage on animals
+10% elemental resistance
+20% poison damage

20% health restored on death

Basic arrows become poison arrows (just because my best bow is Fanged Bow right now)

Passive abilities:

Stealth Master
Weapons Master
Gear Master
Archery Master
Arrow Master (just two levels, I don't use explosive arrows)

Shadow Assassin
Critical Assassination
Sixth Sense

Poison Mastery (this is because my best bow at the moment has the engraving for poison arrows, that is all this is used for) and one level of Venomous Attacks just to get that.
Overpower Attacks (for conquest battles)

Melee skill group:
Second Wind
Hero Strike
Sparta Kick
Shield Breaker

Assassination skill group:
Rush Assassination
Hero Strike
Vanish
Shadow of Nyx

Ranged skill group:
Predator Shot
Multi-Shot

Abilities are all at level three except for a couple where stated.

Using daggers.

Riding a unicorn!