Ammo Is Almost Always A Problem Late Game

[DaetherX]

Especially on challenge modes where you use one weapon, but certainly not exclusive to them, by late IO I'm out of rockets, or shotgun shells, or energy for anything that uses it. The ammo conversion is what it is... even though it's technically 15 to 1 it always gives 1 ammo of your weapon per stack you pick up...

However since demons don't usually give any ammo and late game enemies tend to take multiple attacks, combined with the abysmal amount of ammo you get from conversion etc, plus the fact most energy weapons use a F-ton of energy per use such as the blaster or whatever the energy rocket launcher is that uses 10 energy per shot, but ammo drops are less than 10 pretty much always.

I kept 40 rockets (4 stacks) on my guy needing room for heals.

Even with maxed out in their respective class skills related to ammo it's usually not enough. And I really don't think there should be a mandatory sink of 1-3 levels into fixing a problem that's still usually a problem with them.

[DuckHead]

Hi! Thanks for your insights, I will drop this to the devs. I can't say for the challenge modes, but in classic I think there are routes that provide more ammo / fewer enemies, so you can manage your resources slightly better. Here are some detailed locations and tactics descriptions https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2714349654 and also I invite you to join https://discord.gg/jupiterhell for more accurate tips from more experienced players.

[Cadeyrn Dragheim]

Tbh it's also kinda my only problem with the game. It sucks when a run ends just because you run out of ammo. Or for example exploring the game and going to shadow halls, then running out of ammo because they're only demons who don't drop ammo. Or running into infestation, the only reason i dislike it is because it's basically a waste of ammo.

If it was me i'd do away with ammo really other than explosives.

The only other thing i'd want is after you defeat the boss for the game to keep going on with lots of harder monster waves until you die. Then again might be just me since i find the idea more fun than just the game ending.

[sylph]

If it's any help - it pays to always use weapons that are 'compatible' with the current moon.

Gameplay will quickly teach you which moons feature which ammo types (as a starter - 9mm is only common in callisto).

If you ensure that 1 or, even better, 2 of your weapons use different ammo types that are plentiful in the current moon, ammo problems go away pretty quickly.

Yes, this means ditching that lovely 9mm precision rifle for a basic 7.62 assault rifle, plasma shotgun etc, but it allows you to play the game without ammo concerns.

Alternatively, you can take the ammo traits - scavenger, or army surplus. But, when you are used to the above advice, these skills go from 'essential' to feeling like a waste of skill points! (outside of very specific/advanced weapon strategies)

[DaetherX]

Yea, It's virtually a death sentence to not upgrade to new area weapons anyway like 9mm to 7.62mm, and there's almost always a disassemble/auto-calibration machine. Plasma shotgun is a specific late game weapon I'm talking about. It takes 4 cells per shot so I'm out of ammo pretty quick and needing more if enemies aren't dropping it.

I should say ammo can feel feast or famine depending on situation & weapons.
I suppose a bit of the ammo crunch might be intentional(?) on certain optional levels filled with demons. I'll need to hoard more stacks of ammo if I plan to go in them, and if I can manage to drop something else.

With Ao Carnage rocket launcher it might be helpful if rocket stacks went to 15 like grenades instead of 10. Four or five stacks being a significant portion of inventory space for a total of 40 or 50 rockets can sound great, until you start needing 2+ rockets to kill everything. I did beat this mode on Medium but too many runs felt like they ended due to ammo more than poor play. Same with the shotgun challenge, though I think I recently beat that one too via Army of Darkness skill that changes regular shotgun damage to pierce.

[brickey.8]

Angel Of Carnage in particular is specifically designed so ammo starvation is more dangerous than the enemies. Devote way more of your inventory to rockets than you think you need to, even at the expense of medkits. At least during Callisto you'll still be running a surplus and leaving some ammo on the ground, so if you run out of ammo before medkits later you can only blame yourself. The hoarder trait is also helpful. Don't be afraid to skip the special level in Europa if it's one with a lot of demons; on my nightmare AoC run, I did The Pit hoping for the backpack but used so many rockets there that I never actually caught up with my ammo level before entering, rather less got to take advantage of the extra space.

Outside that, ammo is usually not a dire problem on normal runs if you use each moon's appropriate assault rifle as your main weapon. I'm used to playing on nightmare though, where dropped ammo is doubled. I've certainly had runs where the ammo situation got tricky or forced me out of using my favorite gun.

[sylph]

Originally posted by brickey.8:

ammo is usually not a dire problem on normal runs if you use each moon's appropriate assault rifle as your main weapon

Doubly so if you put your 7.62 ammo into a 7.62 sniper rifle. A single stack of bullets is often all you need.

So to anyone interested - if you really want no ammo problems, build a sniper and get yourself a 7.62 sniper rifle (+aim assist helmet, obviously!)

[Cadeyrn Dragheim]

Originally posted by sylph:

If it's any help - it pays to always use weapons that are 'compatible' with the current moon.

Gameplay will quickly teach you which moons feature which ammo types (as a starter - 9mm is only common in callisto).

If you ensure that 1 or, even better, 2 of your weapons use different ammo types that are plentiful in the current moon, ammo problems go away pretty quickly.

Yes, this means ditching that lovely 9mm precision rifle for a basic 7.62 assault rifle, plasma shotgun etc, but it allows you to play the game without ammo concerns.

Alternatively, you can take the ammo traits - scavenger, or army surplus. But, when you are used to the above advice, these skills go from 'essential' to feeling like a waste of skill points! (outside of very specific/advanced weapon strategies)

I always do the weapon switch thing, but it can still be a problem, especially on hard and over.

The feast or famine is really a problem because it is unfun (to me and probably others too). Until later on where you have those stations where you can make ammo anyway. And sure now after going through the game dozens of times you can know to pack ammo (or not) depending on where you go. But if you just start playing or like me, didn't play for a while and forgot what some branches do, running out of it can be annoying, especially if it was going well.

I agree running with a sniper can conserve it (or melee), but then what's the point of having all the other builds. Still, a fair point i have to say.

I think it would be a lot less of a problem if you could carry 4 or 5 weapons on you standard. Then you could easily carry a sniper or a melee weapon for when you're facing small enemies. But again, a problem on harder difficulties is that if you do that you're quite likely to get destroyed since where there's one enemy there's probably a dozen around the corners. Still I think it could be a good suggestion even just upping the weapon count by 1 since you could carry more weapons on you for more ammo variety that's available around (or keep that special melee you found instead of ditching it).

[Stargoat]

If you know your build is ammo-heavy, you could always take the middle path on Europa to hit the guaranteed ammo station there, as well as the guaranteed backpack from either of the special levels.

Edit: In my opinion, the risk of running out of ammo is important for the experience and balance, because otherwise the strategic decisions related to ammo management have less impact. Each class has specific ammo scavenging perks, and both Marine and Techy have skills for better ammo mangagement with their most hungry builds.

Beyond that, if your build takes wizkid you can mod in double ammo efficiency, gamble for ammo efficiency with an AV'd weapon (difficult for IO+ weapons, though). If all else fails, diversify your loadout as others have mentioned. Sniper and Hunting Rifles are great, efficient weapons.

Ammo management can be particularly tough with Scout, though, since a lot of Scout builds are very greedy in order to... work on a basic level. Points diverted to scavenge or wizkid kinda hurt for scout.

---

You can also practise your ammo management skills by doing Lightfoot runs with Marine (onslaught) or Scout (gununner/gunkata). It's 100% doable and a lot of fun!

[Pwnyboy-Curtis]

I like to build for damage.

Damage is ammo efficiency. Jovisec armour from Mines or Rift on Moon 1 in addition to Son of a Gun gives 100% crit chance. This almost drops kill thesholds by a single attack. Since most kill thresholds are two attacks, this can nearly double ammo efficiency. It also makes you a lot safer.

I'll more often than not wear Jovisec right through the entire game, even without Son of a Gun to make the crit totally realiable.

Also if you find yourself running a little dry, don't be afraid to just grab guns mid level and use up what they have loaded. Basic weapons are perfectly serviceable up through the first two moons. Especially grenade launchers on Callisto, just grab em' and use up the ammo in their mag.

[Doesn't Learn From Mistakes]

Thing is, you don't get to choose your path on things like endless. If endless gives you four shadow halls levels in a row 500 cells still isn't going to be enough with scavenger 3.

[Psojed]

Originally posted by Doesn't Learn From Mistakes:

Thing is, you don't get to choose your path on things like endless. If endless gives you four shadow halls levels in a row 500 cells still isn't going to be enough with scavenger 3.

That's an exaggeration. It's not like shadow halls levels don't drop any ammo at all, even in endless. Plus ammo efficiency is a thing. In an endless run, you are much more likely to have Whizkid, so you can even mod Efficient yourself.
In the last UV playthrough I uploaded, I enter SH with a Bulletstorm Marine using 7.62 and plasma rifle, with 200x cells and 300x 7.62 rounds. I left with 300x cells and 200x 7.62 rounds