Fireangel technician endgame

[mr_oluap]

Hi everyone,

Yesterday i was having a blast playing with a fireangel technician and made it to the Dante Inferno, then i lost because of some tactical mistakes and i ran out of ressources against a 2 Archwarlock + Archmedusa combo.

I found the build pretty strong until i realised that all endgame threats (big robots, medusas and archwarlock) are immune to fire.

The fire also prevents the archwarlock from bleeding which made him almost impossible to kill without plasma grenades (i could shot him indefenitely with the avalanche plasma rifle (3X20 damage), his health would not decrease ; i could kill him with a "deadly" (80 damage) plasma shotgun crits but that was kinda random and risky).

How do you think this class should be played late game ? Rushing through the Dante level without killing everyone ? Is picking hoarder + grenadier almost necessary ?

Is the endgame boss also immune to fire by the way ? Aren't all those immunities making the build kinda pointless ?

The splash damage immunity is really helpful though, but covermaster can also give any build a 75% splash damage reduce.

What do you think ?

[Vathek1]

For a Fireangel Technician, I usually end up bringing a BFT 9000--the immunity to splash damage means that you can BFG everything at point-blank range without worrying about killing yourself.

On the BFT, I'll usually mod it for faster swap time and either Hunter (+8 damage to high health enemies) or a Second Chamber mod to double its capacity (so I need to reload it less).

For secondary weapons, I'll make use of something with rapid firing--either a decent exotic subgun I picked up earlier (e.g. the JAC .44 submachine gun--that thing is excellent) or just a chaingun or hyperblaster with some decent mods for additional damage to higher health enemies, crit chance, and maybe range.

Enemies like Medusae and Archwarlocks are a reason to pull out the BFT 9k. The added fire damage from Fireangel works well against nearly everything else along the way, as it can allow you to stack some nasty burn damage on an enemy, then pull back out of LOS and let them burn to death. The immunity to splash damage also makes Siege Ravagers a joke--they'll only be able to damage you if you stand on the AOE indicators! Without immunity to splash damage, they can be a bit nasty if you can't kill them fast enough.

The only issue with relying on the BFT is ammo consumption. Scavenger III, Hoarder, and a Carrier mod on your armour help a lot, but you still need to be efficient with your shots. Juggler can also be useful so that you don't need to choose between shooting lone enemies (e.g. a CRI Marine by himself) with the BFT or swapping to your chaingun/hyperblaster and eating at least one volley of plasma shots during that time. Shooting one CRI Marine with the BFT is a waste of ammo; hitting a squad with it is always lovely, though!

[sylph]

That's some good advice from Vathek1 there! I second most of that!

Getting autoloader on the shotgun makes it far better against warlocks. Granted, its less dominant for (specifically) fireangel vs archwarlocks, but it still helps!

I'd also advise just skipping Dante inferno... It's a level for characters that are finding the game too easy to want to finish it yet. Nobody should be visiting there if death is a possibility!

You're asking advice to play fireangel techs stronger, but it sounds a lot like your character could have won with some tiny changes! Nobody is supposed to easily sail through the endgame levels, and fireangel is a strong-but-not-broken build. I suspect you're doing everything right except visiting inferno!

Regarding beating archwarlocks... If a plasma shotgun firing every other turn isn't enough, note that many weapons deal more damage per turn than that... Hyperblasters are probably ideal if you don't have to move (fireangel allowing you to ignore the archwarlock AOE, right?), but even a basic plasma rifle at a reasonable range does more dps than a plasma shotgun (even vs point blank shotgun dmg). Also, I'm pretty sure that a barbed perk would still reduce regeneration enough to make short work on an archwarlock in a 1v1: sure, the bleed gets cauterised, but it still probably stays long enough to mess his day up from the odd no-healing turn. If your whizkid is 2, you could probably pick up a random plasma rifle off the floor, slap a bulk on it for barbed, kill the archwarlock, then dismantle it! Alternatively, just shooting a hyperblaster or perhaps even a plasma rifle might be enough dps.
So, for that specific situation, just note there are better weapons for the job without even needing exotics, unique, or AV perks.

Also, as vathek1 said, BFT is another nice solution! I often find myself unable to do that particular route though (although this is mostly down to respawning difficulty levels shoehorning me into certain exits and the like, so it applies less for UV and below!) Vathek1 is also giving good advice about weapons - I'm often a fan of carrying 4 weapons with a fireangel tech, using hoarder, but the default 3 slots is easily enough to carry an AOE weapon, an energy cell automatic, and a 7.62 automatic. Fireangel works very nicely with auto weapons, so most of the time even if you're using a shotgun for close range and AOE situations you'll probably find yourself using a plasma rifle or a 7.62 assault rifle for medium range combat over a plasma shotgun.

Finally, I say this a lot these days... Learning that you can leave a level without killing that warlock is a pretty important lesson. You're going to *have* to to start doing it as you play high difficulties, where many levels can't be cleared, so you might as well start learning now!

As for the end boss, he isn't immune, but he is resistant. Fireangel can put a lot of stacks on him, but he's good at shaking them off. Rest assured that he doesn't really nullify any character abilities. The last fight is well designed, like that... It tests all aspects of your character! The resources you lost in inferno are probably enough. (especially if you can save those plasma grenades, dropping one each on his first and last forms!)

[mr_oluap]

Thank you both for the good advices !

To be honest i accidentaly went into "Dante Inferno" by clicking a far away square :x

Good news the last boss isn't immune, that would have discouraged me to retry the same character !

You're right there are a lot of ways to deal with last levels, plasma launcher would have helped indeed but doesn't seem required :)

"If your whizkid is 2, you could probably pick up a random plasma rifle off the floor, slap a bulk on it for barbed, kill the archwarlock" : oh so this way it would have worked even with fireangel burning ? that's great news too !

[sylph]

Originally posted by mr_oluap:

To be honest i accidentaly went into "Dante Inferno" by clicking a far away square :x

If you do that, immediately leave the level! There's an exit elevator on the same island as the entrance and first portal in inferno.

(RE:barbed rifle) this way it would have worked even with fireangel burning ? that's great news too !

Yeah, the bleed lasts a bit of time before being cauterised. It's not usually necessary though; since fireangel can ignore the AOE blasts from an archwarlock, they are in a great position to just dump damage into the thing! I don't remember the exact numbers, but I think you need a damage higher than about 50 to beat their regeneration. If that's right, an auto-calibrated plasma rifle would do the job and a hyperblaster would be well over. I believe that you can even do it with a basic (un-modded) plasma rifle, but it might take a while!

That being said, honestly the best answer is usually leaving the level. *SO* many JH players get stuck in the groove of trying to fully clear every level, but really, the attrition game is more forgiving if you are ready to leave any level after finding the red chest (getting a bit into 'theory gaming'; most levels have 1 red chest, and medpacks tend to be the 'measure of success' resource throughout the run, so the less damage you take from one red chest to the next, the more your win chances increase). Io makes for an interesting shift in pace, in that red chests stop dropping healing orbs, and this means that before Io, we tend to gather more and more healing items as we play, whereas after that, we tend to *lose* healing items. That also means that in Io and later, it's often even ok to leave levels *before* finding the red chest. In fact, when I get a 'the hunt' event in Dante, you can bet I'm gonna let the monsters get close, then use a phase kit and leave immediately!
The way I see it, that means that once you get to Io, the focus should shift from 'powering up' your character, to just trying to make it to the end. Most builds don't need more than about 10 experience levels, and you'll easily get that even if you leave many levels really early.
There isn't any kind of prize for getting 100% clear, and there are at least 2 classes of enemy (Warlocks and Medusa) that have a tendency to vastly drain your precious resources, while giving nothing but paltry experience points back(which you don't even need that late!).
Put all those facts together, and most of the time, when I see an archwarlock, I try to find another way around the level. Granted, is easier said than done with a slow technician, but it's worth remembering. (And if you see 2 warlocks/medusae next to one another, then give up even thinking about fighting them!)

[mr_oluap]

omg i'm so dumb i didn't see that elevator (it was late night...)

okay i'm definitely going to beat hard mode this week

Not sure about the 50 damages though, i fired the avalanche a dozen times and it did nothing... (i was probably lacking perks for damage though)

[sylph]

I think the trouble with avalanche is probably that it doesn't regenerate its ammo fast enough to maintain a high DPS. The first 2 seconds of firing from it are powerful, but then it'll drop off to almost nothing.

[mr_oluap]

Originally posted by sylph:

I think the trouble with avalanche is probably that it doesn't regenerate its ammo fast enough to maintain a high DPS. The first 2 seconds of firing from it are powerful, but then it'll drop off to almost nothing.

oh i see, the animation was still firing three shots so i thought it was an infinite ammo gun :(

[sylph]

Originally posted by mr_oluap:

oh i see, the animation was still firing three shots so i thought it was an infinite ammo gun :(

They must have been fetal bullets!

[mr_oluap]

lol

Just for the pleasure of the discussion, i died against the last form of the harbinger yesterday in hard with a Sharpshooter, mostly because i didn't know what to do exactly - i had plenty of supplies and probably could have defeated him with a slightly better positionning or just focusing on bursting him and using my enviro pack at the start.

The run was very different than with fireangel. Medusas and archweaver were much easier to kill with headshot + sharpshooter bonus.

However i also felt the lack of fire and splash immunity as a big drawback, as well as the lack of hit and run strategies that makes fireangel a bit easier to play.

[sylph]

Yeah, after lots of games I feel like technicians typically just never get damage potential the way marines and scouts do.
Toxicologist is a really important skill for techs, because without a way to increase their basic weapon damage, they need to supplement it. Grenadier can also do the job, but you get less trait efficiency going that route.

Without masters, Scouts can get absolutely crazy damage when using deadly precision and good amps, executioner, plus stealth where necessary. Marines get angry mofo to hugely increase weapon damage. Techs get headshot... If they're using pistols!

[mr_oluap]

Originally posted by sylph:

Yeah, after lots of games I feel like technicians typically just never get damage potential the way marines and scouts do.
Toxicologist is a really important skill for techs, because without a way to increase their basic weapon damage, they need to supplement it. Grenadier can also do the job, but you get less trait efficiency going that route.

Without masters, Scouts can get absolutely crazy damage when using deadly precision and good amps, plus stealth where necessary. Marines get angry mofo to hugely increase weapon damage. Techs get headshot... If they're using pistols!

And smg's too for some reason !

Overall the balance of the game seems great though, i have the same feeling with this game as with battle brothers and underrail, you can immediatly tell that a great deal of work has been put to balance this games and making them always interesting despite the diveristy of options.

[Útost Alronbem]

Originally posted by sylph:

Yeah, after lots of games I feel like technicians typically just never get damage potential the way marines and scouts do.

Dual katanas.
On average, even fully juiced Soulsomething-endgame-unique-super-mega-hunka-special-sword does not outperform Technican's dual katanas.
It's physically painful to reach that point though - and Scout's Assasinate burst still takes the cake as most ridiculous whomever-you-hate-most popper ever.