Max Range, Vision Range?

[Dr. Med. Bullet-time]

I've played JH for ~50 hours... and at this point I'm (not yet) afraid to ask:
What is 'max range' specifically? Is it the range where weapons cannot deal damage anymore (outside of vision)? And on a related note: What is the maximum vision? Is there a connection between the two?

Thanks!

[vic]

Vision range is, I guess, 7 or 8 tiles? Fewer on low-light levels.
Outside of weapon's max range it deals no damage.

[Qetuth]

Max range (as in the 6 in a range 3/6 weapon) is the last range where you still can hit with bullets or do damage with shotguns. The range one past that is when you can't hit (so a dual shotgun with max range 5 cannot damage things which are 6 squares away.

Maximum vision range on a level can vary from I think 4-7 depending on the level and if you have darkvision. But 6 is the default for almost every level. So if you have good accuracy at range 6 you should be set. Just remember that there are levels like Central Dig which are vision 7.

[Dr. Med. Bullet-time]

Ah, thanks for the answers. So if the max range exceeds vision range, it's basically only good for blind shooting.

[Epyon]

Blind shooting isn't a thing in JH. You can hit things in your vision range (even if you don't see them i.e. in smoke, but with a penalty), but beyond vision range only explosions can damage enemies (i.e. rocket launcher). Max range beyond vision is still beneficial, as it increases accuracy above optimal range in a linear fasion. So lets say you have range 6/7, and the vision range is 7. You fire at a target in range 7 - you have 50% (1/2) to hit. If your max range would be 8, you'd have 66% (2/3) to hit at range 7. At max range 9 - 75% (3/4). Etc.

[Dr. Med. Bullet-time]

Originally posted by Epyon:

Blind shooting isn't a thing in JH. You can hit things in your vision range (even if you don't see them i.e. in smoke, but with a penalty), but beyond vision range only explosions can damage enemies (i.e. rocket launcher). Max range beyond vision is still beneficial, as it increases accuracy above optimal range in a linear fasion. So lets say you have range 6/7, and the vision range is 7. You fire at a target in range 7 - you have 50% (1/2) to hit. If your max range would be 8, you'd have 66% (2/3) to hit at range 7. At max range 9 - 75% (3/4). Etc.

Oh okay. Didn't know about the mechanics behind that. The more you know...
However, this is not entirely true for shotguns, right? Because i usually use shotguns to destroy turrets which are 1 square outside of vision range.

[Aino]

Originally posted by Dr. Med. Bullet-time:

Originally posted by Epyon:

Blind shooting isn't a thing in JH. You can hit things in your vision range (even if you don't see them i.e. in smoke, but with a penalty), but beyond vision range only explosions can damage enemies (i.e. rocket launcher). Max range beyond vision is still beneficial, as it increases accuracy above optimal range in a linear fasion. So lets say you have range 6/7, and the vision range is 7. You fire at a target in range 7 - you have 50% (1/2) to hit. If your max range would be 8, you'd have 66% (2/3) to hit at range 7. At max range 9 - 75% (3/4). Etc.

Oh okay. Didn't know about the mechanics behind that. The more you know...
However, this is not entirely true for shotguns, right? Because i usually use shotguns to destroy turrets which are 1 square outside of vision range.

Shotguns do area damage, so I'd imagine that's why those can reach further in a sense, just like the rocket launchers can.

[BionicCinamun]

Adding:
Yes, shotguns can cause damage outside visual; note that only the basic 12ga. has a max range of 7 by default, everything else (unless there is a unique I've yet to find) has a max of 6, or 5 for the dual; you'll need traits or gear mods to make use of this fact otherwise. Also makes them really good for dark levels, you'll not only have enemies in better range when they see you, you'll be able to blow apart dudes in the crowd you can't even see yet ;)

Also, important note about the explosives: explosive projectiles such as Rocket Launcher can't "hit a target beyond sight range" with "the projectile", but the explosion can; you can however hit walls, doors, explosive barrels, crates, etc. with the projectile even if out of sight though (this goes for non-explosive weapons too, although that's usually less useful outside of the rare explosive barrel).

So you can't just shoot rockets at an enemy out of sight, you need to be clever and aim for stuff near them! Why I will almost always carry a launcher of some sort, for softening up targets from outside Line of Sight.

Grenades of course actually "target the ground", so they can be used for this purpose too, but generally not as good at it (and also tend to be more rare/precious)