Angel of Shotgunnery

[Andizee]

Anyone has done AoSh? I am trying it on Medium with not much success yet, can't even reach Io. There are two serious obstacles.

1. Shotguns are too weak at distance. Enemies can shoot from afar but I need to close the distance to inflict damage. Some enemies like heavy ravagers just don't want to get close. Or there is no way to break LOS to lure them in. Turrets are a total nightmare. So the options, to stay in cover and keep shooting for weak damage, and to run up to enemies, are both bad. And sometimes there is no cover at all, or this darn shotgun destroys the little cover there is!

2. Armor seems to be twice as effective against shotguns. Moreover, it seems mechanical units take half damage from shotguns. It is just not worth messing about with turrets and security bots.

Another potential problem is ammo shortage. I have not run into no ammo, but it has never been abundant, and I suspect the problem can get worse in later game.

So my strategy is
- get everything I can for mobility and stealth. Which means Scout with its stealth + hellrunner, shottyman, and running traits. Hellrunner and Shottyman synergize beautifully. Also I can get a so much needed bonus once per level (stealth) and later twice per level (stealth+running).
- P-mod shotguns for damage. Every bit of damage at distance helps.
- Avoid all special levels where there is generally more open space and fewer "human" enemies who drop ammo.

Still, I die when serious armored enemies (archreavers, heavy ravagers) start appearing.

Anyone has a different approach?

[Dervix]

AoSh is overtuned on the current version. It's arguably the hardest current challenge, harder than even AoI.

I've reported this to the devs, and suggested they remove the 50% slash resistance from turrets.

There's a trick you can use on turrets if you have hellrunner 2. If you run in turret range you'll notice they'll bleep before attacking, with hellrunner your 0.8 turns movement means that you can get in before that and get an unopposed shot.

You choose also branches that have the fewer mechanical enemies.
Best path imo:
Callisto mines: No bots and lots of fiends which are good shotgun targets.
Callisto anomaly: Avoid entirely, or go in and pick one or 2 items and use skills or phase device to get out.
Europa: Avoid the main branch. Europa Dig Site can be a deathtrap but you'll have the easy Tyre Outpost at the end.
Io: Try to avoid most combat and focus on going forward. Io Warehouse on L3 is a reward level and you should enter it if possible.

[Andizee]

Thanks Dervix, this is very helpful.

[Epyon]

As Dervix said - we'll be trying to make it more doable, and if not, we'll move its difficulty tier.

[Casey]

I did an EASY run of it in 30mins to help unlock Ultraviolence.

Didn't seem too hard except for turrets, but that was on easy so I dunno. On harder difficulties I would probably just avoid turrets entirely unless I absolutely had to face them.

[RKade83.ttv]

What about a slug gun? Make them rare and armor-piercing and accurate?

[devildog77]

I did this today after a lot of tries and beat it on medium. It's hard, but doable. It is frustrating that a lot of your early success will depend on how fast you can get some armor.

Best way IMHO is once you get an autoshotty and armor, make a beeline for the end while avoiding combat as much as you can. Honestly, I find the marine easier than the scout because of healing each level and adrenaline (especially when leveled x2) can save your life. As for traits, I used iron man maxed, skilled maxed, whatever the cheat death one is (you don't die if above 25 hps from a single hit, 1/level--awesome if you have a large medkit on hand). Then as I can, I pick up hell runner to help dodge.

Calisto Anamoly isn't too hard with a shotty, actually. Trigger and back out and just gun them down. Don't ever bother with vaults, unless you're really desperate. They are barely worth it.

[Epyon]

So here's an idea - if we allowed grenades would that make it "MEDIUM"? Also, maybe we should bring back Shredder trait...

[RKade83.ttv]

'Nades would help. I also like the shredder perk idea. Or maybe a trait inherent to the challenge? Plus percentage shred per level or something?

[e^cha]

I like Angel of Shotgunnery/Angel of Marksmanship in DoomRL b/c I didn't have to think about what kind of weapon to use. From this point of view, with grenades, the challenge will be different. It won't be so fun for me anymore. I don't know if anyone chooses a challenge to narrow down a particular aspect of the game, but that's what makes the challenge interesting to me.

Maybe make the shotguns stronger overall? I thought they were worse here than in DoomRL.

Or convert ammo 1:1

[RKade83.ttv]

Stupid question but didn't shottys used to knockback?

[e^cha]

I don't know what kind of perk it is, Shredder, but if it's an Army of the Dead, it should help!

[Epyon]

Originally posted by Blind Ryan:

Stupid question but didn't shottys used to knockback?

They did. Problem is we have to figure out a way to animate knockback for it not to look silly. This is way harder than it sounds.

Originally posted by e^cha:

I don't know what kind of perk it is, Shredder, but if it's an Army of the Dead, it should help!

It was an active skill for shotguns that did a regular shot but with x8 armor stripping. It was removed because it was considered barely useful.

[Andizee]

Unlike DRL, here I feel knockback if far less useful, if not outright harmful. Because corner shooting is not 100% safe and shotgun is maximally effective at close range, it's good to get enemies close as quickly as possible and then dispatch them. Knocking back an enemy slightly reduces its chance to hit (I don't know the aim mechanics on monsters) but substantially reduces damage from shotgun. Of course there are situations where it can help. Some enemies seem more dangerous in melee. But knocking them back from melee range means knocking them in the position against which there is no cover, so this is pretty bad situation either way.

Perhaps a more useful property would be a chance to *stun* where an enemy loses a turn.

[Malastro]

Grenades would help a ton IMO, especially smoke grenades. Anything that can help you close the distance without taking too much chip damage. A plasma shotgun (for armored enemies) would also be a huge boon - mech enemies routinely take 5+ hits to kill even with powerful shotguns. I avoid those guys whenever possible but some levels are just crawling with 'em.

AoSh was one of the easier challenges in DoomRL but IMO that's because Shottyman synergized so well with the innate running ability and diagonal sidestepping, as well as Army of the Dead ignoring armor. We got none of that here.

[devildog77]

Grenades would help, but then the challenge loses its flavor.

I would suggest: smoke grenades are okay (not really a weapon, but a tool); slightly higher ammo conversion, a plasma shotty would be nice too for armored foes. Maybe the ability automatically have two mod slots per weapon would do it (since you're a nut for those guns, it would make sense you'd naturally be able to tweak them more).

Its really the med-final levels that are tough. The end boss is really easy with the above talents, especially if you save a teleporter.