Better description for Loans?

[Edemption]

While learning the mechanics of the game. I focused on one cliff until I had a booming economy, then decided to move to the next.

Well, like others I effed myself because I assumed since they were all my cliffs. It may be more of a transferring money mechanic in the game.
Then when I saw I had huge withdrawals. I went into the stat screen to find it said loan repayment. So I was like ok. Figured I was at least paying back most the loan everyday while I was rebuilding, destroying, wasting money trying designs out because I had plenty of money on my main cliff, so I didn't care.

Well yea, that spiraled quickly out of control as every time I wanted to rush and build something I had to get back out of debt taking more loans.

So here I am. searched the forums to figure out these were interest payments only.
So I'll start over, which is fine but wanted to suggest adding a small description in the loan screen and also putting a "interest, loan interest or interest payment" description in the P/L instead of "we returned a loan" because I legitimately thought I was paying down the loan and not just the interest of them.

Other then that. Really enjoying the game! Thanks!!

Edit: Not "loan payment" its "we returned a loan"

[llutac]

I agree. If somebody goes overboard with this (and does not realise the interest payment) they could deadlock a cliff into a death spiral of debt. It's not good to have a (possibliy unintentional) state like this in the game. Cliff Empire is a great game, there are just some fail states in it that could be softened imo.

[Sticky Wicket]

This is a fail mechanic and this issue has been brought up numerous times.

The problem is the game insists on enforcing by default a mechanic where each cliff is deemed to be in compettition with each other. This is imo stupid, particularly since, as you have found out, it can easily become a death sentence of endless debt, essentially crippling a cliff into ruin.

Much more player control is needed with regards to this. For example if you want to issue a interest free loan from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, if you want to simply wipe clean any loan amount from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, and in addition you should be able to set your own prices for transporting goods between cliffs.

A golden rule for the game as far as I am concerned is do not ever use loans, EVER.

[Waper-34]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

This is a fail mechanic and this issue has been brought up numerous times.

The problem is the game insists on enforcing by default a mechanic where each cliff is deemed to be in compettition with each other. This is imo stupid, particularly since, as you have found out, it can easily become a death sentence of endless debt, essentially crippling a cliff into ruin.

Much more player control is needed with regards to this. For example if you want to issue a interest free loan from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, if you want to simply wipe clean any loan amount from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, and in addition you should be able to set your own prices for transporting goods between cliffs.

A golden rule for the game as far as I am concerned is do not ever use loans, EVER.

Hmm... I totally get the points you tried to make.

However, that is a problem many new players have with loan mechanic. They do not fully understand how it works until they discovered that it can lead to crippling economy on 1 Cliff.

Also, you are under a false assumption that each cliff is under competition toward one and another. The economy system in this game is complex, and a couple of wrong moves can spell doom to your entire gameplay. (Unless you save often)

Anyway, I can at least say that it is really challenging to find the right balance in trading among all 3 cliffs, because many experienced players in this game know that each cliff is different. As game progress, gameplay becomes even more challenging when we unlock space station and finally the Ice Citadel in addition to those 3 Cliffs.

Now, all that said... Once we have enough experience in how to manage economy in this game, I can say it is really a rewarding experience. Yes, this is a game with very beautiful graphic and also a very delicate economic system.

EDIT

In short, getting all 3 cliffs to work together in harmony can be a difficulty task.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by Waper-34:

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

This is a fail mechanic and this issue has been brought up numerous times.

The problem is the game insists on enforcing by default a mechanic where each cliff is deemed to be in compettition with each other. This is imo stupid, particularly since, as you have found out, it can easily become a death sentence of endless debt, essentially crippling a cliff into ruin.

Much more player control is needed with regards to this. For example if you want to issue a interest free loan from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, if you want to simply wipe clean any loan amount from one cliff to another you should be allowed to do that, and in addition you should be able to set your own prices for transporting goods between cliffs.

A golden rule for the game as far as I am concerned is do not ever use loans, EVER.

Hmm... I totally get the points you tried to make.

However, that is a problem many new players have with loan mechanic. They do not fully understand how it works until they discovered that it can lead to crippling economy on 1 Cliff.

Also, you are under a false assumption that each cliff is under competition toward one and another. The economy system in this game is complex, and a couple of wrong moves can spell doom to your entire gameplay. (Unless you save often)

Anyway, I can at least say that it is really challenging to find the right balance in trading among all 3 cliffs, because many experienced players in this game know that each cliff is different. As game progress, gameplay becomes even more challenging when we unlock space station and finally the Ice Citadel in addition to those 3 Cliffs.

Now, all that said... Once we have enough experience in how to manage economy in this game, I can say it is really a rewarding experience. Yes, this is a game with very beautiful graphic and also a very delicate economic system.

EDIT

In short, getting all 3 cliffs to work together in harmony can be a difficulty task.

My point is, once you are in a position where 1 cliff is in that downward spiral (and it's very easy to do that) being able to fix it is almost impossible. The only thing you can do realistically in that situation is to load an earlier save, but it would be better and more immersive to have in-game solutions.

Every time Iv'e had this happen to me its an insanity. The cliff that has issued the loan is rolling in more money than it needs, and the cliff that is impossibly trying to repay the money is going into disrepair and ruin. There needs to be player choices to rescue the situation in that event.

[Voroff]

The whole "we need money" in the case of rebuilding society after the apocalypse is just beyond me, to be honest xD Designing games is hard, and having a niftly-paced flow of events is even harder : in the case of Cliff empires, with money the game can be a slog to attain some set sum of cashmoney and even lead to soft-locks (as described here); with "free" buildings all goes too fast and gives little playing satisfaction.
Maybe for Cliff Empires 2, the most basic amenities will be free ? Here a crutch was (recently ?) added so in the very beginning one can't fall under 800 creds, and it solved part of the problem in the early game, moreover the entertainment "plaza" (2x2) is cheap enought to spam it, and exists since ... some time already.

Edit : United Bank is a thing, too, a bunch of them saved my orbital station from financial failure. Them and the "disaster mode" law.

[Edemption]

Originally posted by Voroff:

The whole "we need money" in the case of rebuilding society after the apocalypse is just beyond me, to be honest xD Designing games is hard, and having a niftly-paced flow of events is even harder : in the case of Cliff empires, with money the game can be a slog to attain some set sum of cashmoney and even lead to soft-locks (as described here); with "free" buildings all goes too fast and gives little playing satisfaction.
Maybe for Cliff Empires 2, the most basic amenities will be free ? Here a crutch was (recently ?) added so in the very beginning one can't fall under 800 creds, and it solved part of the problem in the early game, moreover the entertainment "plaza" (2x2) is cheap enought to spam it, and exists since ... some time already.

Edit : United Bank is a thing, too, a bunch of them saved my orbital station from financial failure. Them and the "disaster mode" law.

That's a cool idea. Never thought of stacking money making buildings. I just figured it didn't work like that.
But yea, Been loving the game so far and I don't mind how a developer decides to implement a game feature but surely having a better description wouldn't hurt anything which is the premise of the post.

[Edemption]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

Originally posted by Waper-34:

Hmm... I totally get the points you tried to make.

However, that is a problem many new players have with loan mechanic. They do not fully understand how it works until they discovered that it can lead to crippling economy on 1 Cliff.

Also, you are under a false assumption that each cliff is under competition toward one and another. The economy system in this game is complex, and a couple of wrong moves can spell doom to your entire gameplay. (Unless you save often)

Anyway, I can at least say that it is really challenging to find the right balance in trading among all 3 cliffs, because many experienced players in this game know that each cliff is different. As game progress, gameplay becomes even more challenging when we unlock space station and finally the Ice Citadel in addition to those 3 Cliffs.

Now, all that said... Once we have enough experience in how to manage economy in this game, I can say it is really a rewarding experience. Yes, this is a game with very beautiful graphic and also a very delicate economic system.

EDIT

In short, getting all 3 cliffs to work together in harmony can be a difficulty task.

My point is, once you are in a position where 1 cliff is in that downward spiral (and it's very easy to do that) being able to fix it is almost impossible. The only thing you can do realistically in that situation is to load an earlier save, but it would be better and more immersive to have in-game solutions.

Every time Iv'e had this happen to me its an insanity. The cliff that has issued the loan is rolling in more money than it needs, and the cliff that is impossibly trying to repay the money is going into disrepair and ruin. There needs to be player choices to rescue the situation in that event.

This might make the game have 'to easy' of a way out but maybe give us a cheese-it mode, like a bankruptcy option you can do for a cliff, even if a penalty was involved.

However, just a little better description would have satisfied me. Everything else I have enjoyed.

[Sticky Wicket]

Originally posted by Edemption:

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

My point is, once you are in a position where 1 cliff is in that downward spiral (and it's very easy to do that) being able to fix it is almost impossible. The only thing you can do realistically in that situation is to load an earlier save, but it would be better and more immersive to have in-game solutions.

Every time Iv'e had this happen to me its an insanity. The cliff that has issued the loan is rolling in more money than it needs, and the cliff that is impossibly trying to repay the money is going into disrepair and ruin. There needs to be player choices to rescue the situation in that event.

This might make the game have 'to easy' of a way out but maybe give us a cheese-it mode, like a bankruptcy option you can do for a cliff, even if a penalty was involved.

However, just a little better description would have satisfied me. Everything else I have enjoyed.

As said previously, a golden rule is just not to use the loans system. Things develop slower, but better that than the inevitable spiral of debt and ruin.

[Waper-34]

Originally posted by Sticky Wicket:

As said previously, a golden rule is just not to use the loans system. Things develop slower, but better that than the inevitable spiral of debt and ruin.

Actually, funny enough though, I use Loan mechanic in a different and opposite manner sometimes.

What I do is making the cliff that generate slow but steady income to lend money to other cliff that generate high income. Once there is enough money, lend more to higher income cliff. Repeat this a couple of times and observe situation.

The result is that said cliff slowly siphoning money out of high income cliff as 'debts' thus allowing it to develop slightly faster over time. If the high income cliff start to lose more and more money at the threshold rate we are not willing afford the risk, we can pull out before it is too late.

Originally posted by Voroff:

Edit : United Bank is a thing, too, a bunch of them saved my orbital station from financial failure. Them and the "disaster mode" law.

Yup, some players also do take advantage out of those features too to help recovering economy of certain cliff/segment.

EDIT

Originally posted by Edemption:

That's a cool idea. Never thought of stacking money making buildings. I just figured it didn't work like that.
But yea, Been loving the game so far and I don't mind how a developer decides to implement a game feature but surely having a better description wouldn't hurt anything which is the premise of the post.

You will be surprised at how many buildings that help generating money in the game are there. Plenty of variety too with different functionality and efficiency.

[Lions Shade]

In version 1.25 I change Loan mechanic little bit... and also add some description.

[Voroff]

Originally posted by Lions Shade:

In version 1.25 I change Loan mechanic little bit... and also add some description.

Thank you very much :)

[Novahokie98]

I think the united bank should have more of an impact for 20k.. You only balance with 80c?? Should be more like 800

[Voroff]

Originally posted by Novahokie98:

I think the united bank should have more of an impact for 20k.. You only balance with 80c?? Should be more like 800

You can tweak values, Lion's Shade explained the procedure in his workshop mod. Otherwise doing that, get used to the rythm of the game.