F**k the true final boss of this game. SPOILERS

[Quinn]

Sacrifice your save data to fight a boss whose final form has arbitrary invincibility using mechanics that goes opposite of what you're normally supposed in a schmup. That's some MASSIVE dickery right there.

On the other hand, the entire game leading up to it is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ good it gives me an excuse to play through it again.

I'm not losing a third time I tell you what.

[NPC_CO8ALT]

Why even "delete" the save data anyway? Just make the player re-do the second loop. Having to re-aquire the continues NEEDED for the True Final Boss is just annoying after a while, especiallly since you are doing that fight almost completely blind every attempt.

[Triplicity]

Hello again, it's me. I'm back just to say I've done it as well. Couldn't be the only one in the thread who didn't after complaining that hard.

I've largely come to terms with it considering the nature of shoot-em-ups.
Aside from everything else people have already said in this thread, at this point my only real nitpick is it's not particularly clear/friendly that your remaining continues=your lives for the sequence but I don't know if that's really easily written into in-universe dialogue, and is only applicable to people going in blind for the first time anyway.

[Azalius]

Lost everything myself. I got what was going on mechanically through the story, but after how grueling it was to even beat Despair to the point where I don't even know how I still had continues left only to lose the converted HP right off the bat not being able to tell the first part of it.

I like the game, First and second loop is fun.

But partly to even know what I'm up against and partly because of that depression that hits when the price is ultimately paid for failure with no relieving factor? Didn't even keep the music unlocks... I'll probably just Youtube it. And I would at the very least warn people that the True Final Boss comes with a hell of an entrance fee.

[BrawlerGamma]

I don't see why so many people are so thrown by the penalty for losing at that point. I lost the first time, mostly from being unclear on the conversion thing, and then I just did a couple long runs from stage 1, quit when I lost to convert the score to continues, and was back to where I was in no time. I'm not trying to gloat (maybe a little), but it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to bounce back from considering the nature of shmups and the length of the game. Personally I thought it was really cool. Hell, someone else already pointed it out, but most shmups don't even give you the option to skip stages, at least not as a matter of course.

[AxemJinx]

Originally posted by BrawlerGamma:

it doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to bounce back from

I agree, but this is precisely why it feels like such a nuisance to me. Replaying the earlier levels does not prepare you for the true final boss segment; it merely adds downtime. I don't want to be reminded of retreading the path to a Dark Souls boss fight when I play ZeroRanger. It's unnecessarily tedious.

Besides, there's no need for save erasure because access to the true final boss segment is gated by Stage 2-4's bosses anyway. Perform well in those battles, and you'll have more health left over. Perform poorly, and you can at least take a peek before likely dieing early, forcing a restart. Isn't that already enough of a gate?

I suppose I could try repeatedly overwriting my save data with a backup save (?), or look up the final segment on Youtube, because otherwise I don't think I'm going to devote the time.

[BrawlerGamma]

Originally posted by AxemJinx:

Replaying the earlier levels does not prepare you for the true final boss segment; it merely adds downtime.

Does everyone else just stop playing earlier stages after they beat them the first time?

Not to mention, the true final boss seems more like a story segment emphasized with gameplay rather than a test of the skills you've learned, and as evidence, I present the fact that after you beat it once, and play through the game again, you get a new good ending without having to fight it.
So now that I've beaten it, my goal is to get good enough for a 1cc.

[AxemJinx]

Originally posted by BrawlerGamma:

Does everyone else just stop playing earlier stages after they beat them the first time?

I enjoy replaying earlier stages; I just don't think being forced to do so makes players any more prepared for that final segment than they were when first accessing it.

Originally posted by BrawlerGamma:

Not to mention, the true final boss seems more like a story segment emphasized with gameplay rather than a test of the skills you've learned

Well, I can't comment on that until I see the full segment for myself, but thanks for the info.

[BrawlerGamma]

Originally posted by AxemJinx:

Well, I can't comment on that until I see the full segment for myself, but thanks for the info.

Without saying too much, it's not very long. And I'm not necessarily excusing it as a design choice, it is a little sloppy to change the way you have to interact with the enemy for a segment with a high cost of failure, but a) I don't think it's that egregious, and b) it seems, to me, as someone not involved in its creation and only observing the result, that the intention wasn't a final test of the skills learned--that was the fight that preceeds it--this one seems intended for effect. Which again, you could debate the merits of that as a design decision, and it's probably not great as a mechanical design philosophy, but I think it does what it was aiming to do without the penalty being as severe as people seem to be making it out to be. Which, it's clearly meant to *feel* severe, but it took me a few short sessions to get back to where I was and I didn't really feel inconvenienced, personally.
/ramble

[AxemJinx]

Incidentally, I finished the segment just now (around 7 hours total gameplay time according to Steam, just for reference), and while the final pattern is pretty frantic, I agree it actually wasn't that bad compared to the intensity of the Despair fight. I still don't agree with save erasure, but admittedly, I was expecting something much more insurmountable like, say, the difference between the final and true final boss of Mushihimesama. I guess I was hasty to doubt after my first loss.

[BrawlerGamma]

I just don't think the time lost from the erasure is enough to condemn it, especially when shmups are about learning and ideally trying to master each level so you're better at it next time, and most, including this one, are designed to be played from start to finish in one sitting. When I told a friend about it after encountering it the first time and losing, I called it a *bold* move, but also pretty safe considering the genre and length of the game.

[Quinn]

Update, I did it. Beat the game a second time afterwards for good measure.

Feeling, satisfied.

[Stop the Problem?]

Originally posted by Neon_Phantom:

Oh yeah and one question... how do I get the green back?

You have pallet options in your Visual settings now.

[frumpleorz]

I am furious at this game right now. The save erasure is complete ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[󠀡󠀡]

I think the save data erasure is awesome - you only have one chance, and that just makes things more intense. If you fail? Doesn't really matter. Your game over count is reset, so you can aim for a 1CC which is quite nice. It only takes an hour or less to get back up to the final boss again anyway.

[XenomorphRider]

I do hate that final part. Already lost twice, and replaying the whole thing may be fun but GOSH why. Also it took me two runs to realise that your health is the number of respawn orbs you had before, pretty neat but REALLY annoying if you didn't know beforehand.
Soon I feel like half my playtime is gonna be just replaying to get to that boss

I'm just mad zzz