Iratus: Lord of the Dead

Iratus: Lord of the Dead

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Sick Puppy Jul 30, 2019 @ 4:57pm
Don't use liches.
I'm sorry they are probably the worst unit you can make. No matter what combo of units i use it seems the best one is just having 3 skeletons in front of it. However this is just dreadful since the summoned skeletons to replace the damage fodder vanishes after combat. Plus skeletons are too squishy. At the very least the summoned skeletons considering how bad they are should just stick around as a brand new lowest tier unit afterwards. The friendly fire hurts this unit even more. Just seems like a waste of resources and an unusable unit right now.
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Showing 1-15 of 56 comments
DelightfullyMAD Jul 30, 2019 @ 5:19pm 
I would agree to a certain extent, except that Liches do have a viable use: Poison Clouds.

That's pretty much it, though... just lay down poison clouds and then shift enemies through them repeatedly.

I like the lich as a concept and the design is awesome, but as of right now, they pretty much just have one skill and one skill only that's really worth using. If I'm in a situation where sacrifice is needed, I'm probably already in deep crap and it's usually not enough to salvage a bad situation. Rain of Fire is just too clunky to work with, and only really works well in an all skeleton party with minimal fuss. Bone shards is decent for a basic attack, but there are other minions with better and more reliable base attacks. Despite the large boost it gives, i rarely find myself using Command Undead. And I agree that Reanimate should give you a level 1 skeleton after the battle, since otherwise you just keep having to remake skeletons anyways.

This is still early access, so hopefully there will be some large changes to how skills work in the future.
was_fired Jul 30, 2019 @ 5:37pm 
I agree, 2 Liches with Poison Cloud + Two allies to move enemies is an insanely good combination, but everything else feels lack luster. Single target rain of bones is weak, and with two targets you often end up causing more harm than good since it seems to ignore shielding on allies.

I've had some minor luck with summoning skeletons and then sacrificing them to heal up my party when things have gotten bad, but if you have a good group then you won't ever have a slot free to use the summon + sacrifice combo.
DelightfullyMAD Jul 30, 2019 @ 5:50pm 
Reanimation is one of those skills that sounds really cool in concept, but the only time you'll really use it is when you're loosing minions, and by that time you're usually kind of screwed anyways. Plus, summoning skeletons and then sacrificing them is not at all good for your action economy since they made it so that sacrifice costs an action. It's sort of fun to play around with, but is not actually a practical strategy in any way.

Honestly, I think that if they want to keep the sacrifice skill, it should actually do a lot more than simply restore vigor/grant wrath. You're crippling your action economy for a simple heal, and other minions have better healing options without killing off a minion. Heck, lost soul is a much better healer overall in this regard. Instead, I think Sacrifice should give some pretty hefty buffs to remaining minions (make it so they don't stack, so players can't summon and sacrifice for huge gains). Also, maybe have it so that there's a 50% chance that the skeleton you summon and survives the battle remains with you.

My main issue with the Lich is still Rain of Fire. I really want to like this skill, but it's just too clunky to use and with too little payoff to justify spending wrath and having minions take damage. Yeah, I can have a mummy in the party to remove the ignition, or just have all skeletons so they don't get ignited at all, but if the only way you can make a skill even remotely viable is to have to play a very specific build, it's just not a good skill.

As of right now, the Lich is basically a One-Skill wonder. No Let's Play I've watched where Liches are used ever show any of their skills being used other than Poison Cloud and very rarely Sacrifice. Command Undead is never used, Bone Shards is very rarely used, Rain of Fire is never used, and Reanimation is only used when someone is just sort of farting around. So the Lich minion is basically the following:
Step 1 - Use Poison Cloud (preferably with Toxic Cloud upgrade)
Step 2 - Shuffle enemies through it
Step 3- Profit

And that's it...

Here are some ideas for skill changes for the Lich to make them (I think) a bit more fun to play.

Bones Shards: Honestly, just allow us to target with it. It being random just seems sort of pointless, to be honest. It doesn't do enough to justify the random nature of it.

Sacrifice: Have it restore vigor, and also provide some sort of buff. Maybe a free Shield and Ward to surviving minions.

Command Undead: I think adding a buff to the minions initiative would make this a bit more usable. While the buff to attack and dread are really nice, I still never find myself using the skill. It needs a bit more to make it a viable use of an action instead of dropping a cloud.

Rain of Fire: Honestly, I kind of feel like this skill should be scrapped entirely. In many ways it doesn't really even fit the rest of the theme of the minion. Maybe change it out for something like Wave of Death, which deals high stress damage and has a low chance of instant kills. Or maybe a variation on the Sacrifice Skill (in keeping with that aspect of the lich's skill set), except you kill a random minion (other than itself) and kill a random enemy.

Reanimation: In and of itself it's fine, but I do think you should keep skeletons you've made with this spell. At least have it be like 50% for each surviving skeleton.
Last edited by DelightfullyMAD; Jul 30, 2019 @ 5:58pm
Jinx Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:09pm 
2 Liches with Poison Cloud and the 5% chance to kill anything is super overpowered right now. i stream rolled the game with that combo and a lost soul in the back for support. the bosses was super easy with that.
WaR_Pigeon Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:18pm 
Didn't this get patched? Moving through the cloud doesn't stress anymore, only landing on it.
Jinx Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:21pm 
Originally posted by Pigeonsbiteme:
Didn't this get patched? Moving through the cloud doesn't stress anymore, only landing on it.
maybe in this patch, didn't check and I did my run 1 day ago.
Last edited by Jinx; Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:21pm
DelightfullyMAD Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:26pm 
It did indeed get patched. Don't get me wrong, I approve of that patch and it needed to happen... but now the Lich is a No-Trick Wonder...

The Cloud strat still works okay, but it's not the hilarious auto-win that it was.
spyke2009 Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:29pm 
It's dead. Jim. It's only possibly ok because so many other comps are comparatively ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ at the moment. Feelbadman.png

Sometimes I wonder if the dev's are retroactively trying to prove these early complaint threads right xD cos they were wrong before but are now seeming like ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ oracles predicting the future :^ )
THANKS OBAMA Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:31pm 
Yup. Passing through the cloud doesn't do anything anymore and lost a lot of its viability.

Being honest the Lich is too suicidal for your party and itself, even if you try and make a skeleton with the absolute best resistance you can make you're going to kill it eventually with an unlucky crit before it gets piled on by trash. Skeletons are seemingly not made of bone, but paper mache and hot glue.

Maybe if Skeletons got a defensive buff to lower incoming critical damage by a decent chunk while blocking they'd be alright. Probably not, it'd still be a huge investment for mostly bupkiss when you could have avoided making a Lich and wasting all those resources on a defensive skeleton.

Not worried too much though, the games new and the devs are shaking things up at a regular beat so I'm satisfied with that, not as if I'd know a single thing about how to properly balance this all.
XxGOTHxX Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:36pm 
@Jinx
quote from another thread.

Originally posted by XxGOTHxX:
Just tested it again. Damage only applies when the enemy is standing in there after moving them. Normally there would be way more procs than 2 (one on each enemy that lands in there after the pull) after placing 2 clouds and doing a LS double pull.

Prior to that it was like this with clouds on position 2+3:
3rd minion getting pulled to position 1 will move through 1 cloud - 1 proc
4th minion getting pulled to position 2 will move through 2 clouds - 2 procs
2nd minion will be pushed to 4th position and moves through 1 cloud - 1 proc
1st minion will be pushed to 3rd position and moves through 2 clouds - 2 procs

So 6 damage procs from 1 pull through clouds alone, followed by crit stress bonus procs and maybe heartattack stress procs.

@spyke2009
if you are bored, check the Ghoul thread, posted my build in there and it's actually quite entertaining to play. You just needa get started in the run first and get the requirements to get it going. GWA difficulty tested though :)
holy-death Jul 30, 2019 @ 6:39pm 
I like Lich.

He can buff other minions. He has magic damage. He can strip enemy armor. He can heal other minions (provided you have someone to sacrifice) and he can summon a Skeleton.

To me it sounds like it's numbers' problem (balancing problem), rather than Lich (design) problem.
spyke2009 Jul 30, 2019 @ 8:06pm 
Originally posted by XxGOTHxX:
@Jinx
quote from another thread.

Originally posted by XxGOTHxX:
Just tested it again. Damage only applies when the enemy is standing in there after moving them. Normally there would be way more procs than 2 (one on each enemy that lands in there after the pull) after placing 2 clouds and doing a LS double pull.

Prior to that it was like this with clouds on position 2+3:
3rd minion getting pulled to position 1 will move through 1 cloud - 1 proc
4th minion getting pulled to position 2 will move through 2 clouds - 2 procs
2nd minion will be pushed to 4th position and moves through 1 cloud - 1 proc
1st minion will be pushed to 3rd position and moves through 2 clouds - 2 procs

So 6 damage procs from 1 pull through clouds alone, followed by crit stress bonus procs and maybe heartattack stress procs.

@spyke2009
if you are bored, check the Ghoul thread, posted my build in there and it's actually quite entertaining to play. You just needa get started in the run first and get the requirements to get it going. GWA difficulty tested though :)

Ghoul is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for so many myriad reasons. Not even counting the "oh unlucky crit on her backwards moving slash, no parts for you from that kill!" Even in the specific situations where she shines, it's too much f***ing about for me with summons and all that, to enjoy using that sort of comp.

Right now the best play imho and it's just an opinion, is to slowly build into a strat not by using it from the get go, but by using the obvious stuff that doesn't get prison shower rough sexed in the bootyhole, like slow, methodical tanky ♥♥♥♥. Namely lost soul and bone golem.

Fun... I ain't seeing any here right now xD
Hastur Jul 30, 2019 @ 9:41pm 
I actually think the Lich is decent, but as a support unit. The summon skeletons ability is useless, as is the slay an ally ability. However, the poison cloud is quite good, especially with the mod to kill instantly. A combo of a Bride, Liche, Wraith, and Knight has been one of my best teams.

The Bride is on her stance to shoot moving units. The Liche drops the poison cloud, and the wraith shuffles units as often as he can. While the cloud is up, the Liche uses the Bone Shards. I have dumped buckets of damage on the enemy around every two to three turns. Keep your rage up for the ultimates to go and its pretty decent DPS.
NoCeilings Jul 30, 2019 @ 9:43pm 
Sweet summer child. You haven't played on hard mode, have you?
XxGOTHxX Jul 31, 2019 @ 12:09am 
Originally posted by spyke2009:
Originally posted by XxGOTHxX:
@Jinx
quote from another thread.



@spyke2009
if you are bored, check the Ghoul thread, posted my build in there and it's actually quite entertaining to play. You just needa get started in the run first and get the requirements to get it going. GWA difficulty tested though :)

Ghoul is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ for so many myriad reasons. Not even counting the "oh unlucky crit on her backwards moving slash, no parts for you from that kill!" Even in the specific situations where she shines, it's too much f***ing about for me with summons and all that, to enjoy using that sort of comp.

Right now the best play imho and it's just an opinion, is to slowly build into a strat not by using it from the get go, but by using the obvious stuff that doesn't get prison shower rough sexed in the bootyhole, like slow, methodical tanky ♥♥♥♥. Namely lost soul and bone golem.

Fun... I ain't seeing any here right now xD
Well everyone has a different definition of fun :P At least you can build into any team after 4-5 fights with a decents amount of puple parts per minion and maybe even have enough lvl 4 brains. They are right after crafting stronger than ur initial group anyway XD
But yeah, I'm curious what other team combs might emerge over time. Kinda enjoy it to figure stuff out.
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